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Hardware

Hardware Review: Rio Central 208

Posted by CmdrTaco from the music-quest-continues dept.
My ongoing quest to find the perfect MP3 playing stereo component continues this week with the Rio Central. This is a $1500 box with a 40 gig hard drive that aims to do everything audio, from feeding reciever units, burning CDs, and populating portables, and of course, providing an interface to manage your tunes and play them on your stereo. And it's built on Linux- a USB keyboard is all you need to get to a command line!

I'll be frank- I was excited to see this box. A 40 gig drive makes this thing on the right side of the space curve since it means I can store a large enough portion of my CDs to make it useful. Of course as anyone who has designed or even used a large scale MP3 player knows, with great gobs of disk space comes the burden of attempting to create a UI to do manage great gobs of music.

What's the first thing you do with a 40 gig MP3 player? You plug it in and start ripping CDs. The unit is physically nice looking- it seems a bit big, but most of that is the large screen (which is unfortunately kind of dim). It has USB ports on the front and back. Optical audio connection is available but I tested it with standard RCAs plugged into the stereo in my office since I was familiar with the audio quality of this system having been listening to both CDs and MP3s for a long time here.

The box has a copy of a big chunk of CDDB on it, so it doesn't really need net access to rip a lot of CDs. However it does have a modem port, and an HPNA network connection for people using phone lines in their house as a sort of poor mans ethernet. I'm seeing a lot of consumer electronics with HPNA connections and it looks like a good compromise. Unfortunately the unit doesn't have a built in ethernet adapter, and it only supports a handful of USB ethernet adapters, so I had to order one in order to get this thing on my office network (to review the Rio Reciever which is a seperate device: review forthcoming).

Allright with all of that out of the way, it was time to rip a CD. The drive tray is white which is a minor nitpick, but it really is a sore thumb on the smooth looking black case. But hey, thats just my anal retentive side. Ripping CDs is trivially easy: stick it in and confirm the title. I ripped several discs without trouble (Gorillaz, Daft Punk, Ben Folds), but one had a problem (Blink 182's Dude Ranch). It just hung and there wasn't much I could do about it except eject.

Playback and navigation is a mixed bag. Doing common operations is pretty easy but constructing elaborate playlists is obviously going to be more work. Several nifty random options exist, like playing your most played tracks, or your least played tracks instead of going purely random. Very cool. I will say that this has the best UI of any stereo component MP3 player I've seen, but you need to get up close to do complicated stuff just to read the screen.

The audiotron allows a web interface. The ZapStation lets you use the TV to control playlists. Both devices have shortcomings, but at least there are ways to control your playlist without pulling your ass out of the recliner. The Rio's Remote and screen just don't cut it from more than 6-8 feet away.

The gee whiz stuff that is worth mentioning- having a hard drive in your stereo adds that plesant whirring sound. I'm sure that bugs people besides me. You probably won't notice it at a reasonable distance, but its there. The audio fidelity on the whole is as good as can be expected. We all know what MP3 encoding does to your tunes if you have a reasonable speakers. There are also silly little visualization things on the screen if you are into that. Its fun, but obviously its not the reason someone would buy this thing ;) But I know people who buy an EQ just to have the fancy lights in their stereo, so obviously some people dig it.

For those of you who are interested in getting under the hood, throwing in larger hard drives should be relatively easy. And with 100 gig drives at $200, you could really make this thing sing. If you plug a USB keyboard in, you can ease navigation in the UI... or hit ctrl-alt-delete, and suddenly the Rio Central's screen gives you an honest to god Linux Shell Prompt. There are a few games too, but thats just a nifty bonus, you won't be spending any quality time on them.

Getting audio onto the box through methods other than ripping CDs (or letting it read MP3s off a CDR) is tougher. The box has FTP, so getting MP3s onto the hard drive is easy... a little command line program to import a directory of MP3s would be swell. There's also an open source java application under development called jempeg which should eventually support the Central since it is based on the Empeg car player. That will Greatly ease the annoying process of getting your gigs of existing tracks onto the box.

There are a few other features that I didnt' really test. You can burn CDs or feed a few different MP3 portables. The UI to do this is pretty simple but I didn't have any CDRs or a portable MP3 player to test it out with.

Summary: Ethernet should be built in. Buying a $40 adapter for a $1500 unit is just silly considering the target audience for this thing. At $500-$750 the Rio Central would be a much easier recommendation. Maybe $500, and you add your own hard drive. But I know full well that such a thing currently isn't economically possible for a vendor. I still feel like the home MP3 player is over priced and can't imagine it catching on until it gets a bit closer to the price of big CD changer. But in terms of usability, this is the best one I've tested yet, and the standard 40G hard drive is probably enough for most people.

Coming Soon: the review of the Rio Reciever- this little baby connects over your network to the Rio Central and brings audio to any room you have an ethernet connection. This is what makes the Rio Central stand out. But you'll have to wait a few days to read about it here ;)
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Hardware Review: Rio Central More

Hardware Review: Rio Central

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  • $1500? Sounds like crazy money to me...
    • Yeah, one could probably build a net-booting (no hd, silent) PC for a lot less money, and have some change left over for a sleek black case. My ideal mp3s-on-the-stereo setup most definitely has the files stored on a server in the other room, and doesn't have a noisy hard disk in the living room.

      I like how the website is quick to establish that it's a "home theatre compenent", because everybody knows that $1500 for a PC that doesn't even have ethernet is a ripoff.

      Nice concept, nice to see linux used, but sorry guys $1500 is more than anybody in their right mind is gonna pay for something like this.
  • C'mon, it's a review of a $1500 piece of hardware that does what an $800 computer can do if you give it a good sound card and a burner. Give me reasons why it should be bought!

    • Re:Bad reviewer, no doughnut (Score:4, Informative)

      by Loligo ( 12021 ) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @02:13PM (#3157679) Homepage
      >Give me reasons why it should be bought!

      Because some people don't want a big ugly beige box sitting next to their stereo rack?

      Because some people have $1500 but not the skills to assemble, configure, and install their own components, OS, and software?

      Because some people want a single person to call when the box up and dies, instead of having to diagnose whether to call Asus, Creative Labs, Micron, PC Power & Cooling, or Nvidia?

      I dunno. Why should a lawyer buy one of these to put into his office when he can simply take a slew of billable hours out of his time to save $700 building a Frankenclone box that doesn't match his decor?

      I just can't come up with anything.

      -l
      • Because some people have $1500 but not the skills to assemble, configure, and install their own components, OS, and software?

        Good thing it was reviewed on Slashdot then.
      • >Give me reasons why it should be bought!

        Because some people don't want a big ugly beige box sitting next to their stereo rack?

        A can of Krylon will fix that.

        Because some people have $1500 but not the skills to assemble, configure, and install their own components, OS, and software?

        I'd think that the number of /.ers who fall into that category is fairly small. As for the blinking-12:00 crowd, I don't think they've even heard of MP3s.

        • I'd think that the number of /.ers who fall into that category is fairly small. As for the blinking-12:00 crowd, I don't think they've even heard of MP3s.

          Maybe so, but the parent post was referring to the people in the middle. Those few hundred million people who've used Napster and have a decent stereo system in a different room from their computer/server.

          Those people might want to put an networked MP3 box in their living room, but don't know (or want to learn) how to flash an EEPROM and netboot linux over ethernet.

    • I think this IS way overprices.

      I bought the sonic blue reciever for 99$, and felt it was a great deal.

      This is not aimed at someone who would dream of having a computer with their REAL audio equipment. This is for an audio junkie who wants a nice looking, nice sounding, high quality mp3 storage/playback/burning station to go with their other components.

      But for a concrete list of reasons:

      -it's already set up. No cobbling together hardware/software with a remote listner to try to get it to do stuff. This already does it OOTB

      -it will feed rio recievers. Sure you could hack apache to do it (i have it running at home) but it REALLY is a chore if you're not computer inclined. audio junkies can rip there, and listen anywhere in their house that they have a rio reciever.

      -it looks nice. Your computer would not fit in with audio equipment, This does. It has a nice lcd screen, a nice remote, and a nice looking (non computer looking) case. You can get those tiny shuttle cases, or other plastic cases, or make your own, but they still look like a computer.

      -it has high quality audio parts. Your soundblaster live/etc can not compare to solid state parts. It's the same reason that professional musicians buy a 1000$ audio input card that "does the same thing" your 90$ sb-audigy does.

      It's like the tivo debate... sure you can hack something together that does it all, but a tivo looks nice, works nice, and is already set up for you.
      • sure you can hack something together that does it all, but a tivo looks nice, works nice, and is already set up for you.

        The kind of people that want a stereo-compenent-ish player are probably the same people who don't the the noise of a hard disk in their living room. That alone sinks all these devices imho. Course, the Tivo sold somewhat well (?), so what do I know...
      • It's like the tivo debate... sure you can hack something together that does it all, but a tivo looks nice, works nice, and is already set up for you.

        Your analogy is slightly flawed...a TiVo does considerably more than you would likely bother to hack together. Anybody can throw an All-In-Wonder into a computer and tell it to record a certain channel at a certain time of the week. It takes a bit more ingenuity to get it to track down every episode of Star Trek wherever/whenever it might be showing and record all of them. It takes more still for it to figure out what stuff you might like, record it without any intervention on your part, and make it available.

        I've heard of PVR software that works with your TV-tuner card to provide basic recording functionality, but they usually do little more than turn your computer into a VCR. I haven't heard of PVR software that can do what a TiVo does.

        • Well, your criticism of his anology is slightly flawed. If you replace every mention of TiVo with "rio reciver" your comment is still valid. The rio reciver lets you have a CD jukebox that holds more CDs that would probably fit in the space, all available at the touch of a few buttons.

          The software the empeg guys("sonicblue guys" doesn't work for me) have created is far more advanced than what you would come up with by yourself. I've never actualy used a rio reciver, but I've got two empegs/RioCars and the hardware is great but the software makes it usuable while driving. You can't pick up a mouse and scroll through your mp3 collection while driving on the freeway, but with the empeg is takes 5 secconds to add the song that you just thought of to the current playlist. Are you listening on random and want to hear another song by that artist that just played? One button on the remote. Are you listening on random and don't want to hear more from the artist/album/year that's playing? That's just one button press away. This software is essentialy the same on the reciver, except that you can rip CDs.

          Criticising the software without having used it is sort of off base...
    • the thing is, i've tried everything, and i'm looking at stuff like this now. why? i've done the computer by the reciever. i've done the 2.4ghz video tranmitters. i've tried the long ass cords. these are the things that upset me with "brew your own"

      1) i've got a 2000 stereo system, and i'm still relying on headphone jacks to get my sound out.

      2) i'm the only person in the house that knows how to play a DVD through my system

      3) the fan is loud. the box is clunky.

      so in a nutshell, the computer will do you fine. so will using a set of slip-joint pliers instead of a sledge hammer to pound in a nail. when you buy a stereo system, you want everything easy to use as a remote control, easier if possible.

      I'm looking for a sleek box that does all the functions i want from your computer as a media center. I'd pay more for ease of use and usability, and that's why i'd be interested in buying something like this.

      however, IMHO i'll keep looking, becauuse this overpriced RIO box is just dang ugly. clunky too.
    • Not a bad review, IMO, but you're right, if I was going to spend $1500, for something like that, I'd go with a small footprint PC, then your options are limitless.

  • $1500? (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by Steve B ( 42864 )
    I don't see anything that can't be done for half that on a dedicated PC.
    • Maybe that's why taco's review of the box said the exact same thing. He also doesn't like the color of the white drive, the fact that it didn't rip his crappy blink 182 cd, etc etc etc. but of course you read the article so no need to reiterate.

  • Rio hardware is nice stuff... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by tgd ( 2822 ) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @02:09PM (#3157648)
    I don't particularly like Sonic Blue as a company -- they seem to have gobbled up and ruined a lot of good product lines, but I've used the Empeg before (which they bought), and own two Rio Receivers. (Which seem to be based on the Empeg technology, from the looks of the software running on them).

    I love the Rio Receivers. I have two of them -- one in the living room, and one in my bedroom, streaming music from a Linux server running JReceiver [sourceforge.net]. I can access all my MP3's, as well as listen to streaming music sources over the net on my stereo with a minimum of hassle.

    Although a lot of the college students on here (or unemployed ex dot com people) have time to build one off solutions, for $1500, these are a good buy for those of us who unfortunately don't have time available to custom build solutions. For $99, the Rio Receivers were a no-brainer, I just wish I had bought a couple more.

  • Gimme a break... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by phallen ( 145919 )
    I'll buy one of these when I get my Web Tablet, 3G video phone, Bluetooth wearable pc, and oh yeah: VR headset.

    These companies have got to realize that cramming 1/10 of a computer in to a component and selling it for the price of a full-feature PC will never fly. These must be the same people trying to get me to buy a $3000 HDTV that get's 3 hi-def channels.

  • Audiotron? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dimer0 ( 461593 ) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @02:09PM (#3157653)
    I still don't understand why people would buy these things. You already (well, should!) have plenty of space on a PC in your home. You can already rip mp3s. The only thing is you can't cue them up on a stereo component.

    Get an Audiotron for $199 or so, and you're done. Use your existing collection. Why waste money..

    • Re:Audiotron? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      www.audiotron.net

      "Price: $299.95"
      • Look for them on clearance.. I bought mine from Best Buy for $149 about 6 months ago.
        • heh, when a product goes down to half price, it's a good sign that the manufacturer is junking inventory and probably discontinuing it.

          i.e. you may not want to be an owner of such a device.

          • Nice try, but no dice (Score:3, Informative)

            by Patman ( 32745 )
            Turtle Beach is not only still producing the Audiotron, but still supporting it via addition of new features.
            The last month has seen the addition of a full API to go with the web interface and Shoutcast streaming ability. AT users also can join a mailing list that enables them to help Turtle Beach develop new features. In short, it's probably the BEST supported piece of hardware I've got.
    • I have to concur. The Atron is really *more* functional than this monstrosity because it plays so nicely with a network share (from OSX in my case).

      I don't understand why all these manufacturers are putting HD's (at premium prices) in MP3 hardware. It's chaos! I'm annoyed enough just syncing my iPod. Owning 2 or 3 of these things and keeping them in sync would be a $3000+ headache I *don't* need...

      ...especially since I have 2 Audiotrons. They rock. And yes, they have digital out so I can use a real DAC.

      /me sells 100 shares of SonicBlue short

  • cool box (Score:4, Informative)

    by laserjet ( 170008 ) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @02:12PM (#3157667) Homepage
    Here are the features of the box:

    * Digitally records and stores your entire music collection in a single location.
    * Powerful 40 GB hard drive can store more than 650 CDs or 6,500 individual songs.
    * Write standard audio CDs or MP3 data CDs using the integrated CD-RW drive.
    * Move your MP3 music collection off of the PC and into the living room (use either a network connection or USB to transfer MP3's from your PC to your Rio Central).
    * Create an unlimited number of customized playlists based on personal style, taste, or mood. Or, let the Rio Audio Center determine what you want to hear based on your listening habits.
    * Large display, intuitive interface and advanced search features make it easy to find the music you want instantly.
    * Frees your home of bulky CD collections and saves you from the hassle of searching through stacks of CDs to find a favorite song or album.
    * Shares music with Rio portables via convenient USB ports in front and back of unit.
    * Encodes at a bitrate of up to 320 kbps for high-performance digital sound quality. Provides an optional, lower bitrate encoding option for downloading to portables.
    * Quickly record digital audio files from your personal CD collection. Just load a disc and Rio does the rest.
    * CDs are automatically cataloged as they are recorded. Artist, album, song title, and other relevant information is instantly assigned to each file to make future searches quick & easy. Built-in 56 kbps modem will dial out to retrieve information from the Internet if necessary.
    * Built in 10 mbps home PNA connection for streaming music to one or more Rio Receivers.
    * Supports common audio formats like MP3 and WMA, and can be upgraded to emerging digital standards so your home audio system is always up-to-date.
    * Engineered to the highest quality standards with stereo RCA and optical outputs.

    now, here is what the comments will be:

    1) I can do the same thing for $xxx with xxx hardware and linux

    2) this is cool, but no one will buy it

    3) how long will it be till it runs linux...

    4) etc. use your imagination.

    I for one, think it is a very nice looking box. People buying this probably are not too concerned with money, and it would be a VERY nice looking addition to my home stereo. I myself can not afford it, but it looks like they put a lot of effort into making it look nice and fit in with the rest of your stereo equipment.

    true, you can do the same thing with a computer, but sometimes that just doesn't matter.

    • >1) I can do the same thing for $xxx with xxx
      >hardware and linux

      Except it won't look as cool and won't integrate nicely with your stereo system (think cosmetics).

      >2) this is cool, but no one will buy it

      I don't think they'll sell a lot of 'em, but they'll sell some.

      >3) how long will it be till it runs linux...

      It already does. Read the article.

      -l
      • Apparently you didn't understand me. I DID read the article. I am saying what the COMMENTS will be. You have forgotten that most people don't even read the entire summary, thus it will be a common comment because people failed to read it.

        I know it runs linux. But I also know many /. readers read nothing before posting.

  • For the masses sure, but for geeks (Score:3, Interesting)

    by baptiste ( 256004 ) <mike@baptis[ ]us ['te.' in gap]> on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @02:12PM (#3157675) Homepage Journal
    This geek just wants a front end to my own MP3 server. The audiotron is sweet because it gives you teh slick interface and DAC on top of an Ethernet port. That way I can maintain my stuff on my server that will house other stuff as well. I'd rather have all my home files (MP3s, movies, etc included) one one central server instead of having to maintain a bunch of smaller servers throughout. Maybe thats just me, but that is why teh Audiotron or units like it win me over everytime.
    • In some strange twist, it's actually not just you; it's also the company you mention in your sig. Centralized storage and intelligence will be the future of home computing, and instead of trying to make expensive, do-everything boxes, people will make simple cheap devices that hook into the PC.
  • > but one had a problem (Blink 182's Dude Ranch).

    there you go -
  • There's a PC at thinkgeek for $999 it uses a 1ghz processor, has 256mb ram, has cdrw, 20gig hd. It has all ports. It's small too, 6" square.

    I wouldn't doubt that you could replace the 20gig hd with a 80gig, which cost right at $100 on pricewatch.com
    • Then you have to deal with putting together a good UI for it - which is no trivial task.

      It's like TiVO - sure you can hack together some perl scripts in linux to turn on your capture card every tuesday at 8:00 on channel 9 but it's just not as aethstically pleasing.

      I for one would rather pay for a nice interface and design then spend nearly the same amount for a hacked-together solution.
    • Problems are:

      This thing has an absoluletely appaling sound card which is fine on PC speakers, but connected to a separates system?

      It uses laptop HDs (IIRC). These are very expensive and whine a lot, as well as not being available in 100GB.

      It's got a powerful fan and restrictive intakes, resulting in a lot of noise.

      Better solution is something like a Shuttle SV24 (flexATX with everything built in, one PCI, any IDE hd, one external 5.25 bay, one external 3.5 bay. And if you want, a via C3 chip, and no need for a fan. Mmm... and a nice aluminium case. Makes a good DVD player as well.

      Or any of the small form factor boards...
      • I actually looked at the same thing a while ago. The SV24 is a nice looking case, yes everything is built in, but i've heard a few things about it: specifically, the on board audio is not that good, the power supply fan is very loud, the case internally gets rather warm if you use a p3-800 or faster, and it has no hardware dvd decoding.

        but yes, for a person like me, i'd rather spend the $700-$800 to build up a sv24 like solution and just write the software myself. :)

        • The C3 chips stop it getting so warm, and cope with DVD decoding fine (as well as being cheaper than p3s).

          And you can replace the fan with a better, more expensive one, though granted, the small size and airflow cause it to be quite loud whatever. I have seen it removed and one large fan used externally to the case, though it didn't look as nice.

          And the audio is up to SB128 noise levels, not that this says much....
    • "There's a PC at thinkgeek for $999 it uses a 1ghz processor, has 256mb ram, has cdrw, 20gig hd. It has all ports. It's small too, 6" square. "

      Your joking right? Except for the size... My PC utterly annihilates that things capabilities, I paid 840. PIV 1.6, 256MB, 80gig, CDRW, DVD, all ports... 17 inch monitor... Granted mine is as big as a normal PC(that is waht it is of course) but I'm sorry... why pay that much for something so small?

      • why pay that much for something so small?

        Aesthetics are worth paying for to some people. I'm planning on moving the lion's share of my computer gear either into the attic or the basement when I buy a house, and just keeping one of those new iMacs around (or maybe a laptop) to tap into it via a wireless network.

        The main advantage? I don't have to look at piles of beige metal in the spare bedroom, which is the situation I'm in now.

        --saint
  • OK,
    A Couple of things:

    1. What kind of security is this thing running on its FTP server? (You'd hate to see some punk storing warez on your stereo)
    2. What bitrate does it rip at? How do you modify it?

    It has been mentioned that this system could be built for ~$800. Does anyone know what software is running on this box, and are there any ways that the configuration could be improved in a home brew version of this.

    Also, If one were to make a home brew version, how would you deal with creating a fancy case like this and a teenie weenie little screen.

    I'm Curious.

    • Re:Couple of things (Score:2, Informative)

      by pdh11 ( 227974 )
      What kind of security is this thing running on its FTP server?

      It doesn't, in fact, have an FTP server. There is a Windows program supplied for storing existing MP3s onto it; this access can be password-protected.

      What bitrate does it rip at?

      You get to choose, off a menu. By default it rips twice, once at high bit-rate for playback, once at low bit-rate for downloading to portables.

      Peter

      • There is a Windows program supplied....

        Do you have any idea what underlying protocol this software uses?

        Ben

        • Re:Couple of things (Score:2, Informative)

          by pdh11 ( 227974 )
          Do you have any idea what underlying protocol this software uses?

          It's more-or-less the same as the empeg-car synchronise protocol, for which GPL source is available (search for "emptool"). There is already a rather nifty Java re-implementation (www.jempeg.org), which I believe can (or soon will) synchronise to Rio Centrals just as well as to empeg-cars.

          Peter
  • Supports common audio formats like MP3 and WMA, and can be upgraded to emerging digital standards so your home audio system is always up-to-date.

    heckety heck

    First I wanna ask if you can get to a command line, can you modify it to encode Vorbis -- but then really why is this thing not cheaper than a computer you could build or purchase to do the same work? Not worth having or hacking.

    This isn't for us. It's for stereo gadget-philes that aren't too computer-savvy.

    • Dont expect vorbis encoding or even decoding anytime soon on this thing.

      Internally, i'm 95% sure the rio central uses a strongarm 206mhz cpu (i think the empeg team has only used the strongarm and a cirrus 7212). To encode vorbis, someone would have to implement an integerized vorbis encoder, since there's no way it would run fast enough with floating point emulation. I'm guessing the only person with enough knowledge about vorbis to do this is monty, and monty doesn't like doing consequential work without making money off it (understandably so).

      Unfortunately, SonicBlue is unlikely to ever spend money on vorbis, because nobody uses it. So unless the "open source community" decides to take on this project of building an integerized vorbis encoder, i doubt it will ever happen.

  • Surely it would be more economical and practical to connect a video output to one's television, like the Kenwood Entré [kenwoodusa.com] does. You could program/navigate it using the remote control instead of having to stand right in front of it, and the box would be half the height to boot.
  • Step 1) By this ---- Shuttle SV24 BareBones System ($199 at Outpost.com)
    Step 2) By this ---- VIA:CYRIX III 700 ($37.95 on Pricewatch.com)
    Step 3) By this ---- A pretty good sound card with optical output: Hercules Gamesurround Fortissimo II ($50.00)
    Step 4) RAM/Hardrive --- $200
    Step 5) Assemble and install OS of choice :) Step 6) Lather Rinse Repeat for friends and family.
    Viola!!! --- Dedicated mp3 jukebox for ~$500.00
  • The device offers, according to the linked page, "Built in 10 mbps homePNA connection for streaming music to one or more Rio Receivers."

    Nice, but practically speaking a waste. Better to replace the Ethernet card with a low-power FM transmitter, like most car CD jukeboxes do, so that you can pick it up from any radio in your house. The only use for homePNA would be to sell the Rio Receivers, but this $1500 device would be infinitely more valuable if I didn't have to spend more money to get remote listening.

  • Deal running now (Score:2, Informative)

    by Mr.Intel ( 165870 )
    If you click the link and look at the ad in the lower left corner it says, "Free RioReciever plus $100 off when you buy the RioCentral". Since the reciever rocks more than the Central (it has ethernet) then this deal might actually make it worth getting. I get the whole enchilada for $1400. Need to cash in 401k... ;)

  • Subscriptions Alreday Working (Score:3, Funny)

    by dthable ( 163749 ) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @02:30PM (#3157830) Journal
    See. The /. subscriptions do work. Taco has enough money to get married and still purchase a $1500 toy.
  • And it's built on Linux- a USB keyboard is all you need to get to a command line!

    Well, hey, I had reservations about dropping twice the current price of my iMac on something with less expandability, less functionality, less drive space, and no real network connection - but if it runs Linux, well, that changes everything.

    *cough*

    Yes, I'm being sarcastic. If it's not something designed as a general purpose computer, I don't even _want_ to know what OS is on it.

    --saint

  • "Supports common audio formats" (Score:5, Funny)

    by lightspawn ( 155347 ) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @02:33PM (#3157865) Homepage
    Does it play .mid files? You know how many months of .mid files fit inside 40GB?

    Kids today, it's MP3 this, MP3 that. Back in my day, we downloaded .mid, .mod, .xm, and .s3m files, 2400 BPS upstream both ways...

    And we liked it!

    And you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

    • I still listen to my collection of over 5000 midi and mods, granted I did get most of them years ago in the 2x uphill manner you stated above. I havent made any tracker files since wavetable MIDI came about though. Even with a low price combination of a SB Live and a second Yamaha chipset soundcard, with some instrument changes and effects you can get very good quality midi files which can then be recorded as standard .wav files and burned to CD. I have about 200 midi files that I've converted this way over the years and have since compressed them to MP3 and added them to my local file/MP3 server.

  • This is exactly why I've preordered the linux kit for the Playstation 2. It seems to do everything this box does and more (for $1300 less, assuming you already have a ps2):

    black case: check (with matching black cd faceplate. wow!)
    40 gig hard drive: check
    cd/dvd drive: check
    optical out: check

    the "and more":
    ethernet card: check
    tv/out: check

    Add a cdparanoia/lame frontend, and maybe a fancy auto-mount script or two, and you're all set.
    • >This is exactly why I've preordered the linux
      >kit for the Playstation 2. It seems to do
      >everything this box does and more (for $1300
      >less, assuming you already have a ps2):

      Your PS2 came with a CD-RW drive?

      Nifty. Where do I get one?

      -l
  • Why don't they come up with something like this and add in a Tivo-type recording system? I know it can easily be done on a computer with a TV capture/out card, but it'd be nice to have it in one stereo component with nice audio outputs, optical output, Ethernet (allowing remote admin via web interface, access to the internal hard drive (so I can still access my mp3's from my computer), and the ability to mount a remote filesystem for playback (so the mp3s/video files on my computer could be easily viewed on the system without having to copy them over). Hmm... the ability to easily add future components (internal and external) would be nice as well (read: home automation). Please someone, make someone like this and sell it at a price I can afford! :)
  • and that device will cost 1500$US + 840$CAN in Canada, if that proposal [cb-cda.gc.ca] already posted on Slashdot [slashdot.org] is accepted! Already more than the cost of a PC...

    who will buy it in Canada at 3000$CAN ???
    • A good question which has not been raised is whether this thing violates the Audio Home Recording Act of 1984. 17 USC 1001 et seq.
      No person shall import, manufacture, or distribute any digital audio recording device that does not conform to the Serial Copy Management System.
      A digital audio recording device is
      Any device of a type commonly distributed to individuals for use by individuals, whether or not included with or part of some other machine or device, the digital recording function of which is designed or marketed for the primary purpose of, and that is capable of, making a digital audio copied recording for private use.
      The Ninth Circuit has said that storage of digital audio on a computer hard drive was not meant to be covered by this act. They held that the original Diamond Rio mp3 player was not covered by the act. RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F.3d 1072. Because the original Rio "cannot make copies from transmissions, but instead, can only make copies from a computer hard drive, it is not a digital audio recording device." id. at 1081.

      The Rio central can not only rip CD's directly without the intervention of a personal computer (not covered by the act), but it can then write those MP3s back to its CD-RW. This device does not fall under the exception to the AHRA that has sheltered mp3 players so far.

  • Here is a case Here [directron.com] that looks like a stereo component. Tack on an LCD display here [matrixorbital.com] and you have a killer computer that matches with your stereo, does more than the $1500 device and costs much much less. Additionally, you can put whatever size HD you want. Personally, I love having 160GB of Mp3s at my disposal.
  • Here's what I've got going at home:

    Beside the TV/entertainment centre/etc. is a PII-300, running Win2K, picked up from a surplus shop locally for under $100. It is headless--there's no monitor or keyboard. There's an SB Live 128 in there with the line-level output signal going to the stereo system and the line-level ins coming from the TV's extra line-level audio outs. Of course, it has a network card in it and I administer it with VNC.

    I can play MP3s from any machine on the home network. Furthermore, I run the ShoutCast server on the box so I can listen to TV from other rooms in the house (handy when I have to be on the dev machine in the bedroom but a game is on). With the addition of a bit more technology (a AllInWonder card or somesuch), I could have some snazzy video caps too.

    Now all of this, including the cards, cost just under $200. Please tell me, a geek, why I could go buy the item costing over seven times what I put together my box for? I'm not dissing it; I'm just saying that on my own, I can get a much more flexible system that I control and configure. Sorry, Rio, nice idea, but a little too expensive for this humble driver writer.
  • So you are willing to order a $40 network adapter, but you don't want to go out and buy a few CDRs to test the burning function?

    hmph.
  • And it's built on Linux- a USB keyboard is all you need to get to a command line! So no advantage facing a PC with Linux (for half the price) ?
  • Their technical support blows. There's a problem with the battery and charger on the Rio 800 MP3 player. On the website, there is a link to order a replacement charger. I filled out the order form on 12/31/01. I then filled it out again on 1/31/02. I still haven't received the charger nor an e-mail. I sent countless e-mails to SonicBlue but got no response. I tried calling but they want $19.95 a call so I said forget it.

    Don't believe me? Check this out [amazon.com].
  • In Canada, with the new levy $21 per Gig goes to the recording industry. $21 * 40 gigs = $840. Ouch. Time for CD based MP3 players I guess.

  • $1500 ain't so bad... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dasmegabyte ( 267018 ) <das@OHNOWHATSTHISdasmegabyte.org> on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @02:49PM (#3157991) Homepage Journal
    For a new component? Hell no. Think about it: you're paying as much for the service and the software as you are for the box itself. And though you can say very easily that you could find quality ripping, encoding and navigation software and add that to your $800 box, the fact is it still won't have the correct footprint, decent enough optical out, clean enough analogue out, a nice resolution mini monitor or a decent controller.

    What a lot of people don't understand is that any idiot can toss together a cheap computer. Making a cheap computer into a great machine takes good software and an eye for detail -- what will cause a problem where, what will be unreliable and unsupportable in three months, what will cause dependencies that aren't intuitive. Shit, when I went Athlon I found out after installing the mobo and chip that both my NIC and my sound card were incompatible...meaning three hours of downtime while I shlepped to the local hardware emporium. That's why people buy boxes from Apple, SGI, Sun Cobalt, Snap, F5 and RADware...you don't have to hack anything to get them to work.

    I figure the software that went into this machine took at least as much care as my Sun Cobalt webserver ($1900 for similar power), plus it's got that sweet little display. $1500 may be a lot for a computer -- but for this device, it's worth it and when the price drops in two or three months it'll be even more worth it.

    • Re:$1500 ain't so bad... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Matthew Weigel ( 888 ) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @03:15PM (#3158230) Homepage Journal
      For a new component? Hell no. Think about it: you're paying as much for the service and the software as you are for the box itself.

      The software that, apparently, prevents you from doing most operations more than 6-8 feet away. You want me to spend $1500 on that?

      And though you can say very easily that you could find quality ripping, encoding and navigation software and add that to your $800 box, the fact is it still won't have the correct footprint, decent enough optical out, clean enough analogue out, a nice resolution mini monitor or a decent controller.

      Why add it to an $800 box? For $500 you can buy a cheap computer that does nothing but serve files (hell, you can probably find an IPX for $50, throw some more at it for disk space), and an Audiotron.

      No optical out, though - is an optical out worth $1000 and a worse interface to you?

      No great mini-monitor either - you'll have to make do with a web interface that provides more functionality at a greater distance (sorry).

      Clean enough audio out? Heh. Clean enough so that you can hear the difference between 128k and 192k mp3s, I wager.

      I figure the software that went into this machine took at least as much care as my Sun Cobalt webserver ($1900 for similar power), plus it's got that sweet little display. $1500 may be a lot for a computer -- but for this device, it's worth it and when the price drops in two or three months it'll be even more worth it.

      That's wishful thinking. If care went into it, it would have ethernet, not HPNA. It would have a web interface, not a tiny little LCD. This is exactly what I would expect from SonicBlue, who seems to specialize in failing to add value for the money. That's why I have an iPod instead of a Rio... just because it's expensive doesn't mean it's worth it.

      • I sit about six feet from my speakers...any further away, and you start to lose what little soundstage you have left after MP3. A web interface for a stereo component is totally worthless -- my stereo does not have anything to do with the web, and for most users of home audio the web is another kludgey interface.

        My Adcom has about eight functions: Play, Pause, Stop, Eject, Skip Track (up and down) and Scan FF/Rwnd. For many home audio enthusiasts, simple is better. For components like this to sell, they have to be all inclusive, have a simple interface, and yet not be critically crippled. It is possible to perform all three of these with good design, and I feel SonicBlue has done this.

        I'm not buying it or anything, but I respect the unit. This is exactly what I'd be looking for if I hadn't sworn off MP3s for good when I sold my Rio Volt.

        • You are misinformed. The presence of a web interface for complex functions does not preclude the existance of a simple RC interface for simple functions.

          Further, of course, it is unreasonable to expect that all listening of music - and hence manipulation of what is playing - occur within a radius of six feet, even if your misinformed claim about the soundstage of mp3s were correct.

          But, as you point out, anyon who would think that it was a good unit for mp3s probably isn't being consistent with their misinformed beliefs unless they swear off mp3s entirely.

          This unit is a piece of crap catering to people who think that expensive is good, and haven't seen a good interface to a large library of music.

  • The audio fidelity on the whole is as good as can be expected. We all know what MP3 encoding does to your tunes if you have a reasonable speakers

    All mp3 decoders are not created equal and I sure wish reviewers would dig a little deeper. If they go beyond navigation and I/O features and cover audio quality, it's typically only to mention background hum or hiss or a wimpy headphone amplifier.

    mp3 at high bitrates created with a competent encoder (LAME is one) can sound pretty good. Decoding with cheap 16 bit DSPs such as the TMS320C54x [ti.com] used in the Rio One is hard to do-- you have to watch out for error accumulation (e.g. please round to zero instead of simply truncating).

    If you don't believe me that decoders differ, consider these tests of PC decoders [essex.ac.uk]. Unfortunately, no one seems to do such detailed testing on embedded decoders.

    I'm giving my Rio One to my nephew who will be so thrilled to have it that if he hears the high-frequency errors on playback of middlin' bitrates (192kbps), he probably won't mind.

    I don't know what I'm going to replace it with, though. I know I shouldn't expect much out of a $80 player powered from on AA cell, but there's no guarantee that a $400 Rio Riot or iPod will be glitch-free: they might have spent the whole power and cost budget on LCDs, hard drives and amortizing development.

    A StrongARM-based PocketPC might be the answer- plenty of horsepower to run less compromised 16 bit decoder or even a 24 bit or floating point one. It should also be able to decode ogg vorbis....

    By the way, instead of reasonable speakers, I'm using a good pair of headphones [sony.com]. Much more bang for the buck when it comes to revealing audio defects, though the Sonys tend to be a bit shrill (well the older V6s that I have) for long-term listening. These are the same model we used when I was at E-mu [emu.com] for all normal testing. The only thing more revealing was the elements from a good pair of Sennheisers in a set of noise protection muffs [davidclark.com] to cut background noise by 23dB. Also, some of the ATC [sei.com] guys have Grado electrostatics [gradolabs.com].
    • The reason people don't do decoder tests on embedded devices is that everybody knows decoders on embedded devices suck. There's no floating point, so everything is integerized, and there is limited processing power, so shortcuts have to be taken in order to decode in real time. For the most part, this doesn't matter, because the expected audience is using headphones or cheap speakers instead of a nice stereo system.

      The Rio Riot is just a Rio 800 with a hard drive. Same processor, same DAC, same decoders. The iPod is a different animal, i dont know about the dac, but i do know that they have two arm7 cores instead of just one. I'm guessing they use the same decoders as the riot though.

      Dont get your hopes up with strongarm. It's faster than what they use in the riot (cirrus logic @ 73mhz vs strongarm @ 206mhz), but there still isn't an FPU. Also, dont get your hopes up with vorbis on that, unless someone writes an integerized version of the libraries (or updates the open source ones to rcX; search for 'integerized vorbis' on sourceforge.net). The soft FP stuff isn't fast enough to decode vorbis real time on the SA.

      Really, honestly, you're not going to get 24 bit audio out of an embedded device. At least not now. And you're definitely not going to get a good listening experience plugging sennheisers or grados into a portable device. It's just too expensive to put high quality audio components into a portable device.

  • Cmdr Taco Needs Help! (Score:2, Informative)

    by filbo ( 147228 )
    This "MP3 stereo component" obsession has gotten out of hand. I know someone who specializes in OCD. Please, for the sake of the /. community, I think Cmdr Taco needs to seek help dealing with this issue.

  • In Canada... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dorf_of_Eleven ( 200203 ) <streetmg@hotmWELTYail.com minus author> on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @03:01PM (#3158117) Homepage
    What's the first thing you do with a 40 gig MP3 player?

    In Canada, you pay $840 extra. :)

  • Why spend $1500 for this, when a computer would more than suffice?

    Granted having a tower crammed into your average entertainment system would be ugly as hell.. not to mention unwieldly.

    Personally, i got a Book-PC [thebookpc.com]. it fits perfectly in with the rest of my system, plus with its svideo output, it gives the added value of allowing me to play my MAME [classicgaming.com] games through the rest of the system. simply throw in a wireless keyboard and mouse. and your all set. and i paid less than $700 for the system.

    i suppose i could use the extra $800 to buy beer or something.

    just my 2 cents
  • http://www.turtlebeach.com/audiotron

    No expensive storage to upgrade, keeps everything on your PC. The latest software version has an API.

    The company has been extremely responsive to suggestions on their support mailing list.

    $350.
  • So $1500 in CDN dollars is about $2500. Add on Canada's new $21/GB x 40 GB copy protection "levy" is $840. Wow, $3340.
  • Where are you shopping?

    My home MP3 playing dedicated computer cost me $400 with the monitor. Where did I get it? A used computer store. Playing MP3s doesn't require a lot of processor (mine is a PII 450 and that is more than enough) and I do the ripping on my big box (PIII Ghz) and then transfer them over the network.

  • It's like they build this equipment just so they can get it on the streets before Congress passes legislation to ban it.

  • It's really overpriced....but it runs Linux!!! I'll take it!!!
  • An Emerson CD/MP3 player. A little portable unit that is only slightly larger than a standard portable CD player, has line out to connect to external speakers/stereo systems, reads Mp3s from a CD and handles subdirectories quite well, programmable playback sequence, all the standard functions of portable CD players. It may not have all the cool features of the mentioned box, but at 85 bucks you get a good solid hand held CD/Mp3 player that can be plugged into the wall with the included AC adapter, and plugged into your stereo system with the line out jack. Far better price/performance ratio than just about any Mp3 player, and more than enough for the average persons needs. It even comes with decent(though not outstanging) headphones, a first in all the portable cd player purchases I've made. For general use, I wouldn't recommend a different model Mp3 or portable CD player. Especially if you have a CD burner... its wonderful. Only failing is it chews through batteries pretty quickly, especially when playing Mp3s. Even so, the versatility it offers over a normal flash memory Mp3 player, or a portable CD player, and plug in the wall stay put units, makes it WELL worth the 85 dollars US I paid for it at my local Kmart(MILFORD IS STAYING OPEN!!!! YAYYY!!!!)
  • I think many of us have extra PC hardware laying around or that can be obtained cheaply that we can put together to make a decent enough MP3 player. My question is, does anyone have any suggestions for *software* to do something like this? Yes, I could open up an ssh session and play songs from a CLI or run Winamp or whatever is the *nix equivalent. But I'd rather get away from a keyboard/mouse interface to play music. I've searched around on Google but the solutions I've found seem to be more on the level of a hack rather than something nearly as elegant as one of these out-of-the-box players. What are you folks using? I've considered rolling my own but there always seems to be something more important around here that needs to get done, ha.
    • My question is, does anyone have any suggestions for *software* to do something like this?

      Sure. Download uICE [mediatexx.com]. It supports various infrared controllers such as the IRMan. You can use any infrared remote to control it (your VCR's remote, whatever). Just teach the IR codes to the software and tell it what you want it to do. I use it with an AMX touchscreen [amx.com] linked to an AMX master controller. The master controller sends 6 character strings out one of it's 6 serial ports into one of my server's 10 serial ports. uICE receives those strings and passes control on to Winamp. End result? I can control all functions of Winamp from my living room. The AMX equipment also powers up my audio equipment and switches to the right input when I fire up Winamp from the touchscreen...
  • It strikes me that you could build the same box for $500 or so using The Incredible Shrinking Motherboard [slashdot.org] and a small case. Any reason to spend three times as much for a pre-built box? For the $1,000 extra you could get a rack-mount LCD panel as a display.

  • Replay TV (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Joe U ( 443617 )
    My question is, why didn't they merge this with their ReplayTV line?

    How much more could it have cost to combine the TV and music?
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

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