Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Part One: Killing The "Inviolate Personality"

Posted by JonKatz on Wed Jul 19, 2000 09:30 AM
from the technology,--harassment--law--and-privacy dept.
A new book argues that gender discrimination laws and software technologies are combining to destroy privacy in the United States. At particular risk is the American notion of the "Inviolate Personality," -- the part of every person's private thoughts, deeds and communications thought to be beyond the reach of public and governmental exposure and scrutiny. For those who love to speak and roam freely online, this is no small loss. First of two parts (so they'll both be shorter).

Jeffrey Rosen says he began writing The Unwanted Gaze: The Destruction of Privacy in America as an effort to understand the constitutional, legal and political drama behind the impeachment of President Clinton.

His exploration grew broader. The Clinton impeachment, Rosen later concluded, was really a window into a phenomenon that affects everybody, whether Kenneth Starr is after us or not: the erosion of privacy at home, at work and, especially, in cyberspace, where intimate personal information is increasingly vulnerable to exposure. All kinds of people -- litigants, employers, government agents and prosecutors, total strangers -- can now look with impunity at our diaries and e-mail, digital footprints and track the books we order and the Web sites we visit.

The Unwanted Gaze became an unsettling alarm of how technology and new laws -- especially those which spring from sexual harassment legislation -- have combined to make privacy nearly obsolete before most Americans have quite grasped just how much it's being threatened. When it comes to issues like technology and privacy, America is truly an unconscious civilization, blissfully trading away even prized and hard-won freedoms. (Yesterday, the White House announced that it planned to propose legislation that would set legal requirements for surveillance in cyberspace by law enforcement authorities.)

Invasions of privacy were a hallmark of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, writes Rosen, who's a law school professor and columnist. And increasingly, they are a legacy of the new technologies and software deployed on the Net and the Web.

Privacy used to be regarded as a nearly sacred American right. Keeping British soldiers and government agents out of people's homes and lives was one of the primary justifications for the American Revolution. But most Americans have barely blinked as their tastes, habits and preferences have been routinely tracked online. That apathy might be changing. "The public is nervous and increasingly suspicious of what online and offline advertisers are doing to them," the chief privacy officer of AllAdvantage, a Net advertising firm warned recently. As people become more alarmed, so will politicians. That means more laws from Congress, always a frightening possibility when it comes to the Net.

This broad-based assault on privacy --by no means confined to the online world -- threatens one of the cornerstone ideas of individual rights that dates back to the Enlightenment, and was embraced by the American legal system -- the idea of the "inviolate personality," the belief that a human being's innermost convictions, communications and tastes were private, to be protected from monarchs and governments as well as prying gossips. Online, this is an especially powerful idea. We talk to strangers all the time, assume all sorts of postures and personalities, express all sorts of opinions in all sorts of places, explore strange sites and spaces, leave all sorts of tracks. That freedom of exploration and expression is one of the most powerful things about the Net and the Web, one of the things that makes it unique, that so many people love the most about them.

In l890, Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis wrote that "the common law secures to each individual the right of determining, ordinarily, to what extent his thoughts, sentiments, and emotions shall be communicated to others." That legal principle once prevented prosecutors from seizing and studying diaries, letters, and private papers. Thus many Americans were flabbergasted by the degree to which prosecutors could vacuum up the most intimate details of Monica Lewinsky's life, from her bookstore purchases to her private letters and e-mail. Whatever people thought of her relationship with this dunder-headed president, many were uncomfortable not only with the prosecutor's zeal but with the wide public dissemination her private life and records received in media and court documents. Lewinsky's "inviolate personality," however strange or narcissistic, was exposed and destroyed as thoroughly as anyone's in memory, possibly excepting Princess Diana.

Lewinsky -- along with much of the rest of the country -- was shocked to learn when agents seized her personal records and clothing that the right to privacy can be snatched away at any time. Her most personal e-mail messages to family and friends were posted all over the Web.

Rosen convincingly assigns a lot of the blame to recently-enacted harassment laws, which made the Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky dramas possible. As sexual harassment law expands, writes Rosen, people can be interrogated about their consensual relationships on the flimsiest of allegations. During the l980's and 90's, he writes, the Supreme Court recognized sexually explict speech and conduct that created a "hostile or offensive working environment" as a form of gender discrimination, a legal evolution that made it difficult for lower courts and employers to distinguish consensual affairs from illegal sexual coercion.

The threat of harassment suits has prompted companies to wantonly invade their workers' private e-mail and personal correspondence -- even to rifle their desks -- almost at will. Online or in the workplace, the idea of the "inviolate personality" is vanishing, not by vote or legislation but by a gradual erosion caused by a series of court rulings and the advance of new information technologies like the Net.

The inviolate personality has also been undermined by diverse other culprits.

On the Internet, snoops are only one danger. In cyberspace, warns Rosen, the greatest threat to privacy comes not from nosey employers or colleagues who tattle but from the electronic signatures and footprints that make it possible to monitor and trace just about everything we read, write, browse, or buy. As people reading this know well, most browsers are configured to reveal every Web site people visit as well as IP addresses which may identify individual users. Often, this invasive software is even admired and hailed as cool new stuff.

But that information can be -- is being -- collected and stored to create detailed profiles of user tastes and preferences in shopping, reading and other habits, all of great value to hungry retailers, increasingly global megacorporations for whom mass marketing -- thus the gathering of personal information -- is nearly a religion. It will also inevitably be used by law enforcement. The FBI's "Carnivore" system, so named, agents, say, because it is able to quickly get the "meat" in huge quanitities of e-mail and instant messaging systems, consists of hardware and software that trolls for information after being hooked up to the network of almost any ISP. Once installed, "Carnivore" has the ability to monitor all of the e-mail on a network, from the list of what mail is sent to the actual content of the communications. Like other forms of searches and seizures, "Carnivore" requires court approval to be deployed. But it's capable of gathering an unprecedented amount of communications from targets in seconds, including personal and intimate messages many people believe are being sent anonymously.

In the Corporate Republic that comprises contemporary America, information gatherers are much more likely to be companies than cops. Rosen cites Amazon's creepy software that uses ZIP codes and domain names to identify the books most purchased by employees of prominent corporations. Amazon also touts its "recognition" software that tracks its regular customers' buying habits and makes personalized recommendations to them. Rosen also recounts the flap over DoubleClick, the Net's largest advertising company, which last year was forced to delay a plan to create elaborate dossiers linking users' online and browsing habits with their actual identities.

The combination of gender discrimination laws and new technology, and the risk they post to the idea of individual privacy, amount to a seismic change. Throughout the United States, the young in general and students in particular have no right to privacy at all. Their computers and writings are routinely seized and examined, and their e-mail, personal correspondence, writing and speech are increasingly taken out of context and disseminated to authorities and law enforcement agencies.

Democratic states have always drawn a distinction between public and private speech, recognizing that the ability to expose parts of our identity in some contexts that we conceal in other contexts is indispensable to real freedom.

Privacy is vital for the evolution of individual personalities, and for the formation of intimate relationships. It permits communications between friends, lovers and families. It is essential to freedom of expression and to any form of individualism, to the development of intellect and values. It's even essential to creativity. The idea that our reflexive reactions, frustrations, mistakes and missteps -- especially those expressed so freely, impulsively and widely online -- can at any time be disseminated to the world is a very real impediment to free speech and thought.

Next: Platforms for privacy?

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold:
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) | 2 | 3
  • Re:Sadly, it is..Question about software by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @11:58AM
  • Only one reason for prying into Clinton's affairs by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:56PM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by rlk (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @08:02AM
  • Re:Licensing programmers isn't the way by peter hoffman (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @07:30AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by peter hoffman (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @08:13AM
  • Re:Sadly, it is..Question about software by peter hoffman (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:49AM
  • Microsoft's Right? (OT) by Seumas (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:12AM
  • Privacy by jjr (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:23AM
  • Re:So? by cdub (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:14AM
  • There's still time... by AstroJetson (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:12AM
  • Re:David Brin's Transparent Society by Kaa (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:48AM
  • Your right.. by Rombuu (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:36AM
  • Re:We;ve never had privacy by ConceptJunkie (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:18AM
  • Re:Interesting choice of story by Smallest (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:54AM
  • I was gonna review that book... by gmhowell (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:25AM
  • Re:Paula announced it at a newsconference by jason_aw (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @08:12AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by 0xdeadbeef (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:25AM
  • ATTENTION by MrNixon (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:54AM
  • Internet for the masses? What did you expect? by mberkow (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:54AM
  • Re:Am I undervaluing my Privacy? by grahamwest (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @12:14PM
  • Re:Sadly, it is..Question about software by AtariDatacenter (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:58AM
  • Want to lose Karma? by Louziffer (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:06AM
  • On the other hand.. by Coleco (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @08:10AM
  • Privacy is private by Loopy (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:59AM
  • Safety at the expense of privacy by Flounder (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:47AM
  • Re:That's not so easy by georgeha (Score:1) Thursday July 20 2000, @03:16AM
  • Software can, if you use it by georgeha (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:01AM
  • That's not so easy by georgeha (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:44AM
  • Re:David Brin's Transparent Society by Shadowmist (Score:1) Thursday July 20 2000, @01:29AM
  • Scale is no longer the issue. by Shadowmist (Score:1) Thursday July 20 2000, @01:36AM
  • Interesting definition of atrocity by Shadowmist (Score:1) Thursday July 20 2000, @01:56AM
  • Re:The opposite side of the coin by radja (Score:1) Thursday July 20 2000, @03:36AM
  • Re:Interesting definition of atrocity by BluFinger (Score:1) Thursday July 20 2000, @07:03AM
  • Privacy not the issue? by BluFinger (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:30AM
  • *sigh*... Don't bother, YHBT... by SvnLyrBrto (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @11:07AM
  • WARNING: brash Yankee troll by operagost (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:06AM
  • We;ve never had privacy by orev (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:50AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by MKalus (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:42AM
  • Re:David Brin's Transparent Society by StarKruzr (Score:1) Thursday July 20 2000, @04:24AM
  • I think someone's way ahead of you there. by Tau Zero (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @07:39AM
  • Another idea by Tau Zero (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @08:31AM
  • Much more useful for political dirty tricks. by Tau Zero (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @09:19AM
  • goodbye privacy, it was nice knowing you by impaler (Score:1) Thursday July 20 2000, @07:38AM
  • Online != public by Rares Marian (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:27AM
  • Privacy is a Myth by fishlet (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:56AM
  • Re:Excellent bot! by grarg (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:58AM
  • Re:Again: Yeah, so? by Kinthelt (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:07AM
  • Re:Interesting choice of story by VAXman (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:10AM
  • well put by MattW (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:54AM
  • Re:Dear Fuckwits, by Christianfreak (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @08:43AM
  • Big Brother is Watching you...close the curtains by Christianfreak (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:27AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by Fesh (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @11:02AM
  • Re:There is a way out... by elgardo (Score:1) Thursday July 20 2000, @02:35AM
  • There is a way out... by elgardo (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:16AM
  • Re:Katz by scott@b (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:37AM
  • Important by phUnBalanced (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:55AM
  • Hmm by delevant (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:32AM
  • new title, what da ya think... by toppk (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:09AM
  • Interesting choice of story by Lowther (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:42AM
  • It's a good idea, but needs some refinement by J.C.B. (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:42PM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by J.C.B. (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:51PM
  • Licensing programmers isn't the way by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:16AM
  • Decently Written by Prof_Dagoski (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:07AM
  • Re:Join me in rebellion! by Pinlighter (Score:1) Thursday July 20 2000, @01:58AM
  • The opposite side of the coin by Poligraf (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @07:13PM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by SillyWiz (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:12AM
  • Re:Sadly, it is..Question about software by falloutboy (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @11:56AM
  • Re:good article by tahini (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:29PM
  • Re:Festering Pile of Crap... Where's My Shovel. by theghost (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @12:45PM
  • The world is a big cruel place by Stskeeps (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:45AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by jstupid (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @11:13AM
  • Re:David Brin's Transparent Society by Dyolf Knip (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @07:03AM
  • Skirting the Issue by The Scooter King (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:55AM
  • What scares me... by Moro vaan Ugrit (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:08AM
  • Re:Privacy and SoapBox -- Incompatible ? by CorporateProgrammerD (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @07:16AM
  • Re:Area KatzBot Remains Functional, Readers Reliev by rcriii (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:44AM
  • Again: Yeah, so? by InfinityWpi (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:45AM
  • Re:The tradeoff by Golias (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:38AM
  • Spurious Choices by Scytle (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:18AM
  • Area KatzBot Remains Functional, Readers Relieved by LNO (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:09AM
  • Sexual-Harassment and Self-Esteem by ZoSoZodiac (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:51AM
  • Re:David Brin's Transparent Society by driptray (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:22PM
  • Lack of privacy can work both ways by driptray (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:56PM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by Chris Mattern (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @08:09AM
  • Re:Sadly, it is..Question about software by Sionik (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:39AM
  • So? by Sionik (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:49AM
  • Re:Jon Katz: Please die. KATZ IS NOT IMMORTAL. by Mtgman (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @07:02AM
  • Re:Jon Katz: Please die. by Mtgman (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:16AM
  • Why Expect Privacy on the Web? by ChaoticCoyote (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:37AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by davonds (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:39AM
  • Re:Jon Katz: Please die. by davonds (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:42AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by Jon Erikson (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:23AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by Jon Erikson (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:26AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by Jon Erikson (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:07AM
  • Re:Sadly, it is..Question about software by QuarterSauce (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:34AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by rothwell (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:56AM
  • Re:The obligatory observation by rothwell (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:57AM
  • Re:Sadly, it is..Question about software by rothwell (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:02AM
  • Re:David Brin's Transparent Society by rothwell (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:09AM
  • wave goodbye, they can see you by Superb0wl (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:40AM
  • Re:Katz by Superb0wl (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:43AM
  • A result of US's hare-brained crypto laws by Floyd Tante (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:49AM
  • overuse of words by potaz (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:52AM
  • Re:Idea by closedpegasus (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:07AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by closedpegasus (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:20AM
  • Re:Sadly, nothing new, nothing surprising by kurioszyn (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:34AM
  • Re:There is a way out... by kurioszyn (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:36AM
  • Re:Privacy is a Myth by kurioszyn (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:42AM
  • Re:Join me in rebellion! by kurioszyn (Score:1) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:50AM
  • Re:What? by phil reed (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:05AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by Proteus (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:18AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by isaac (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @07:06AM
  • The obligatory observation by Uruk (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:47AM
  • You confuse Privacy with Anonymity. by Chris Burke (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:49AM
  • I Agree! (Yeah, right!) by Seumas (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:25AM
  • New pro-privacy program from The United Kingdom by JonKatz (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:23AM
  • The tradeoff by JonKatz (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:48AM
  • Not responsibility -- safety by Angst Badger (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:39AM
  • Speaking of grocery store clubs.... by ch-chuck (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:04AM
  • Re:The tradeoff by Disco Stu (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:22AM
  • Journalism and privacy. by sammy baby (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:00AM
  • gender discrimination laws and being 'interrogated by rark (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @11:07AM
  • Tying this to gender issues seems bogus... by domsol (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:37AM
  • Sadly, nothing new, nothing surprising by Badgerman (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:42AM
  • Idea by schporto (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:45AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by Kaa (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:27AM
  • Re:Not quite that bleak by Kaa (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:32AM
  • Re:David Brin's Transparent Society by Kaa (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:35AM
  • Re:Sadly, it is..Question about software by Smallest (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:57AM
  • Re:Software can, if you use it by georgeha (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:22AM
  • Privacy is not synonymous with freedom by 1010011010 (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:19AM
  • Re:David Brin's Transparent Society by 1010011010 (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:31AM
  • Re:David Brin's Transparent Society by 1010011010 (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:54AM
  • freedom.net by 1010011010 (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @02:28PM
  • Re:That's not so easy by Enoch Root (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @10:44AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by MrEd (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:52AM
  • About that law. . . by Spasemunki (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:01AM
  • Not quite that bleak by zorn (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:57AM
  • Re:Technology making privacy outdated by Harri (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:28AM
  • What? by RFC959 (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:40AM
  • Living without privacy by Animats (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @07:51AM
  • Join me in rebellion! by Digitalia (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:53AM
  • Re:David Brin's Transparent Society by ruin (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:44AM
  • Re:The tradeoff--refined idea by yankeehack (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:34AM
  • Paula announced it at a newsconference by yankeehack (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:48AM
  • Am I undervaluing my Privacy? by DrTomorrow (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:28AM
  • Re:The tradeoff by Golias (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:10AM
  • Technology making privacy outdated by Jon Erikson (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:46AM
  • Sloppy research by Benwick (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:39AM
  • Re:good article by kurioszyn (Score:2) Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:40AM
  • Dear Fuckwits, (Score:3)

    by isaac (2852) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:11AM (#921954)
    So many of you are saying "I'm just a normal guy, I have nothing to hide. Privacy is for criminals."

    To them I say, your privacy will only be important to you when it's gone. When you become a criminal by governmental fiat or your own carelessness. Or, more likely, you commit countless, pointless crimes on a daily basis (speeding? jaywalking? installing a high-flush toilet in your bathroom? violating ordinance X or Y? copyright infringement?), and you just haven't been called out on it.

    By the time your insurance company is raising your rates (or refusing to cover you) because they bought your DNA records or your grocery-buying habits, it will be too late for you. By the time you find yourself suddenly called out on the various infractions you commit on a daily basis for speaking out against something in the interest of those in power, it will be too late for most of us.

    The transparent society will be a society based on blackmail. Transparency will never be equal for everyone or every organization.

    -Isaac

  • by JonKatz (7654) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:50AM (#921955) Homepage

    Sadly, it is shorter.
    Next week I intend to do a five line column..Since I know many of you won't read the column, here's a question I'd love some help with. in the book, Rosen argues that new software..encryption, pseudonymous e-mails, etc. will return a sense of privacy to the Net. Is this so? Do any of you think software can really protect privacy from government surveillance and corporate tracking programs.
  • by Angst Badger (8636) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:51AM (#921956)
    Rosen argues that new software..encryption, pseudonymous e-mails, etc. will return a sense of privacy to the Net. Is this so?

    In a word, no. Encryption and other technological approaches are forms of hiding, not privacy. Privacy is when They aren't looking because They have no right to, not because They don't have enough computing resources to throw at the 2048-bit RSA cipher I'm using. Having to encrypt my mail definitely does not enhance my sense of privacy.

    Look at it this way: my wife and I have an explicit agreement not to go through each other's papers. She can leave her personal journal on the hard drive, and I can leave my (old-fashioned paper) diary on my desk, and neither of us pries. That's privacy. If she had to encrypt her journal, and I had to keep my diary in a locked box, that might be security, but it would not be privacy.

    Unlike security, privacy entails a basic respect for other people. The absence of that basic respect is the primary cause of the current erosion of our rights. Bad laws and bad company policies are, in this case, just an epiphenomenon.
  • by Kaa (21510) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:01AM (#921957) Homepage
    I'm all in favor of giving law enforcement all the tools they say they need and they say they want under one condition: The more they get, the more light shines into them

    I fail to see how the loss of somebody else's privacy compensates you for the loss of your own.

    The fact that I am not an exhibitionist does not imply that I am a voyer.

    It's like agreeing to be kicked in the face once in a while provided that other members of the society also get kicked at least as often.


    Kaa
  • by Kaa (21510) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:55AM (#921958) Homepage
    You know full well what I meant

    I do? Your whole post was based on the idea that privacy means hiding one's information.

    concept of choosing to keep your personal data private is becoming outdated.

    It's not a concept, it's a value. Different people think different things are important. Some people think their privacy is important, some don't. I guess what you are trying to say is that over time more people will decide that their privacy is not important to them. I disagree.

    Sure, I'm advocating a choice here, otherwise that'd be rather totalitarian wouldn't it?

    Sure? You seem to be rather fond of totalitarian solutions to problems, so no, I'm not sure.

    Privacy is a product of today's society rather than being an inherent right. It's got a lot to do with the hang-ups that people have when it comes to their personal life. The Puritans have a lot to answer for IMHO.

    That's not true. You seem to equate privacy with nobody knowing whom you fucked last night and what's your favorite position is. That's really a small and not very important part of privacy. Consider these two points instead:

    (1) Information is power. If I know a lot about you, I can forecast what you will do in a given situation. I will know how to manipulate you and what buttons to push to get the response I need. Surrendering privacy means becoming powerless.

    (2) I would link privacy to territoriality: both have the idea "this is mine and you can't have it". And territoriality is biologically determined in humans -- you cannot say that this is a product of some specific society.

    Wait till direct neural interfaces become available

    Have been reading too much cyberpunk recently? In any case, that has nothing to do with the present problems we have.

    Security != police state. I'm not in favour of totalitarian police powers, just giving law enforcement agencies an advantage over criminals.

    A lot of security == police state. Security is intrinsically opposed to freedom because security is about setting limits and predictability -- both necessary is certain amounts, but both limiting freedom.

    And are you saying that now law enforcement does NOT have an advantage over criminals? Besides, I think that you are in favor of totalitarian police powers, you just don't like the label.

    Kaa
  • good article (Score:3)

    by jakob_grimm (38102) <jody AT utk DOT edu> on Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:10AM (#921959) Homepage

    For the most part, Katz has raised some good points. Privacy is dead, or at least mortally wounded, and most people don't even know it.

    Again, the largest threats to privacy are corporations whose only interest are the bottom line. I'm surprised Katz didn't mention grocery store discount clubs. Imagine tying your grocery store buying habits to your online shopping/surfing habits (thanks, DoubleClick) - and then linking that to your personal identity. It's not too farfetched.

    From a story [uniontrib.com] in the San Diego Union-Tribune: "The data compiled by using those cards can be disseminated in a variety of ways. CalPIRG noted yesterday that there have been cases in which supermarket companies, using membership club data, offered customers' prescription information to drug manufacturers and provided law enforcement agencies with records of customers' buying habits to help in the creation of suspect profiles. One chain even allegedly threatened to detail the alcohol purchases of a customer who sued after falling down in one of its stores." Yikes!

    Carnivore is worrisome, but not too unexpected - the FBI and other 3 letter organizations have been spying for years. Better the devil you know...

    Finally, on company time I don't expect much privacy, except maybe in the toilet. It's their desk, not mine. It's their computer, not mine. It's their... see a trend?

  • by 1010011010 (53039) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:42AM (#921960) Homepage
    David Brin and you seem to make the assumption that the government can be made transparent and accountable only if the citizens' privacy is destroyed as well.

    Umm... no. David Brin's premise, which I am also using, is that technology combined with power is and will erode personal privacy, and there's nothing we can do about that. You can't un-invent technology, and outlawing it creates the police state we want to avoid. Given that erosion of privacy is going to happen due to the technology existing and the will of those in power to use it, we need to re-think how to defend ourselves. The answer is, turn the cameras back on the cameramen.

    ---- ----
  • by 1010011010 (53039) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:26AM (#921961) Homepage
    But the FBI, CIA, etc, are "voyeurs" with the power of the legal system (i.e., the ability to use force, including deadly force) to back them up.

    We're not talking to private citizens here. We're talking about people in power. Wouldn't you like to see your FBI file? Shouldn't you be able to? I'd say yes. What right does the FBI -- even though it is composed of citizens like us -- have to spy on you in secrecy, and carry out covert operations that affect your life using that information, with impunity?

    It's not at all about "misery loving company" as you said. It's about accountability. The U.S. government is supposed to be "of the people, for the people". Power ultimately rests with the people, not the government. If we're the bosses, why can't we check up on our employees?

    ---- ----
  • by briancarnell (94247) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:31AM (#921962) Homepage
    Although they sometimes go overboard (see the Jovanovic case for a nightmare in progress), they solved this problem in cases of rape by limiting the extent to which previous consensual sexual encounters by the alleged victim can be introduced as evidence. The obvious thing to do would be to extend this to alleged prepetrators of sexual harassment and stop turning such cases into fishing expeditions for every factoid about a person's sex life.

    BTW, don't feel too bad for Clinton since he explicitly supported the laws that got him into so much trouble (and has said almost nothing about reforming that broken legal process).

    Brian Carnell
    http://www.equityfeminism.com/
  • by Yardley (135408) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @08:08PM (#921963) Homepage
    Hi. Read this: http://www.kuro5h in.org/?op=displaystory&sid=2000/7/18/122257/231 [kuro5hin.org]. Please don't b-slap me; this is important!

    --
  • by yankeehack (163849) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:07AM (#921964)
    The danger isn't in the enforcement of sexual harassment or gender discrimination laws or any other type of laws (These are just some really good, visible examples that have stuck out in the public's mind as of late.)

    The real danger is how people or institutions (Ken Starr, et al) MISUSE the information gathered in the name of these investigations and then use them in way inconsistent to the purpose of the investigation (leaks, etc.).

    Just think about Charles Bakaly (a Starr aide) who is in court right now fighting charges that he leaked info about the Monica investigation to the NY Times.

  • by tealover (187148) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:54AM (#921965)
    I think most people, including Jon Katz, have this notion that the internet provides the perfect platform for people to get on their virtual soapboxes and voice their opinions to the world, all the time remaining anonymous. I have a problem with this notion.

    First, the internet is a public network accessible by anyone. The fact that it is called an internet as opposed to intranet renders assumptions about privacy rights as suspect. To the extent that there are things done that can cloak your identity, anonymity can be achieved, but I don't think people should be surprised if it isn't lasting.

    In some respects, the cry for privacy rights is really a request to relinquish responsibility for voicing one's own opinion. We don't allow witnesses to testify in court anonymously. Why should we allow people to go into a financial chat room and unleash false rumours about companies that bring down their valuations? We are seeing now that people who thought they could get away with this are being prosecuted for making reckless and false comments, as they should be.

    If you want the internet to be your soapbox, then deal with the repercussions. If you want to ensure absolute privacy, on the internet or anyother medium, you are living in a dreamworld. The sooner you realize this, the better off you will be.
  • by Seumas (6865) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:46AM (#921966)
    The internet is NOTHING like testifying in court. No, you can't testify in court with complete anonymity and privacy. But guess what? You can publish a book under a pseudonym. You can distribute leaflets, booklets and other media with complete anonymity and privacy.

    The internet is an ocean of minds and it needs to stay that way. It's one of the last bastions where human interaction and human thought can roam, explore and interact largely without restriction. Without this, many people who have access to the net would feel increasingly boxed-in and claustrophobic. The government, your employer, other governments, your friends... They have no granted right to know every thought you think or care to share, yet you do have the freedom to share them -- and without revealing yourself, if you so desire.

    Privacy and anonymity should be granted to those who wish to have it. I'm in favor of leaving things as they are. You can encrypt data. You can use pseudonyms. There are many things you can do to assert your privacy and anonymity. Please, leave government (all 200 of them that would like to regulate the internet) out of it and let technology govern the ability for privacy. As long as there is demand for it, and it is not made illegal, means of acheiving relatively secure privacy will be available and usable.

    Further, not everyone who wants anonymity or privacy is on a soapbox, as you seem to be. There are people who are seeking legal information, medical information, information on dealing with rape, abuse, drug addiction, dealing with sexual harassment, unfair treatment at work, career advice, information on relationships, raising children, self-defense, constitutional rights, police mis-conduct, misconduct by government officials, alchoholism and a million other things which would be stifled if people could, without any effort, find out that you are Jane Jones of 1414 S Someplace and that you were concerned with the fact that your employer is threatening you with termination if you don't follow through with unethical and perhaps illegal conduct and that your husband is an alchoholic and you're not sure how to leave him and get assistance for yourself and your child without being put in danger and that you were raped when you were in high school and that you think you might have felt a lump in your left breast and are scared to death that it might be cancer.

    These are the reasons that both privacy and anonymity is important. What is valuable on the internet is information and the free flow of it -- not the names attached to it. It has nothing to do with responsibility of the individual and everything to do with the very fundamental expectation of freedom from punishment, persecution and unjust attack by the unneeded granting of your personal information, unless deemed available by yourself.

    I would really encourage people who just shrug their shoulders and say "bah! It's the new millenium. It's technology! Get off your soap box and live with it!" to reconsider their position. The internet is larger than Slashdot and people being accountable for their statements on the specs of the latest rumored graphics card -- and there are far greater risks and losses certain to come from not protecting privacy and anonymity than there are from protecting it. I, for one, would rather not fuck with it, lest we make the biggest mistake of our generation and wager the rights of future on-line generations.

    Now I will jump off of my soapbox.
    ---
    seumas.com

  • by Kaa (21510) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:12AM (#921967) Homepage
    But it seems to me that privacy as a concept is somewhat outdated

    You don't understand what privacy is. It is not hiding any and all information about yourself. Privacy is control over personal information. It means *I* get to choose who knows what about me.

    In order to personalise such medicines drug companies are going to require your DNA profile. Are you willing to give up on advances like this for the sake of some nebulous concept like privacy?

    If I get to choose whether to submit my DNA profile (understanding I'll get a worse/none medicine if I don't), then I have no objection. If everybody is required to submit their DNA "for the public good" whether they want it or not, privacy has been violated.

    More personal information is the key to any number of services and advances that will benefit you as an individual rather than being for the use of a generic person

    Again, it's all fine as long as I get to choose whether I want to play these games. I have no objection to any "opt-in" schemes: some people don't need privacy at all (Jennycam, etc.)

    threats to your personal safety and freedom are moving from the physical world to the internet.

    Threats to my personal safety are moving to the internet? Huh? Let's say my machine gets owned and my hard drive published for all and sundry to see. What does it have to do with personal safety?

    Thanks to the banner of privacy, criminals can hack your details with a much greater chance of getting away with it than if the internet is logged, verified and secured.

    You are arguing for a police state. You seem to like the idea of living in a police state. That's a value choice and cannot really be argued.

    Kaa
  • A real Review (Score:4)

    by rcriii (171606) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @05:40AM (#921968)

    Did John plan to write a review? It is hard to tell if he is summarizing the content of the book or propviding his own political commentary.

    For another review of the book check out this link [gwu.edu].

    The prologue [nytimes.com] to the book and another review are available on the New York times site (free registration required...).

    An interview Mr. Rosen gave to NPR's All things Considered can be heard here [npr.org]. Note: For some reason I cannot listen to this on my computer...

    He manages to leave out many of Mr. Rosen's arguments for why private speech should be protected, and why these protections should be extended to our electronic utterances.

    Mr. Rosen points out that much of our private speech only makes sense in context, and that that context includes our relationship with the person we are communicating with and their knowledge about us. Thus my letters to my wife or my best friend may make no sense when read by a perfect stranger (such as a police officer, judge or jury member).

    He also touches on how allowing stranger access to our private thoughts and communication infringes our freedom. The title of the book even comes from a tenet of Jewish law that protects others from being watched without thier permission (thus the 'unwanted gaze').

    IMHO It is much more important to publicize and emphasize the real reasons privacy is a basic freedom, rather than just repeating privacy like a mantra and grumbling about how stupid and thoughtless Americans are to let these freedoms be eroded by the "Corporate Republic".

  • by JonKatz (7654) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:46AM (#921969) Homepage


    I will. I promise..
  • by Kaa (21510) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @06:10AM (#921970) Homepage
    David Brin's premise, which I am also using, is that technology combined with power is and will erode personal privacy, and there's nothing we can do about that.

    You are a bit confused. Your original statement was "losing personal privacy is OK if everybody else, specifically government, loses it too". My response was "no, it's not OK, and you can and should get government accountability without sacrificing personal privacy". Now you are saying "See, we are going to lose personal privacy anyway, so if we get government accountability into the bargain, this is not bad".

    First of all, my point is that it is bad anyway. I am not a big fan of the "if you are going to be raped anyway, just relax and enjoy it" thinking. I do NOT think that making government transparent will in any shape or form compensate me for the loss of my privacy. Accountability of people in power is one thing, loss of personal privacy is another thing and I still don't see why you think they net each other out.

    Second, I don't think that the loss of privacy is inevitable. Yes, technology is coming and one cannot stop it. But one can perfectly well stop its use by the government and law enforcement. Think about wiretaps. For a long time there has been technical capability to wiretap thousands and tens of thousands of people. Yet court-sanctioned wiretaps in the US number in hundreds per year. This is a straightforward example of privacy-invading technology being held in check by the legal system. I am not saying the same thing will happen to all the new technologies, but I don't see total surveillance as inevitable.

    outlawing it creates the police state we want to avoid.

    How come? If you outlaw, say, automatic face recognition and cross-referencing of personal information databases except by court order, how does this create the police state?

    The answer is, turn the cameras back on the cameramen.

    That's exactly my point: this is NOT the answer. To repeat myself, your loss of privacy does not compensate me for my loss of privacy.

    Kaa
  • by 1010011010 (53039) on Wednesday July 19 2000, @04:42AM (#921971) Homepage
    The Transparent Society [lycos.com]

    I'm all in favor of giving law enforcement all the tools they say they need and they say they want under one condition: The more they get, the more light shines into them. I would be in favor of drafting random groups of citizens, 12 at a time, juries, and giving them a pass that lets them walk through any door in FBI headquarters at any time and listen to any conversation they want. If the FBI wants to be able to listen to us, then we should have people who we trust, members who've married our kids, members of our civilization and not part of the old-boy network, who will go in and verify - who will watch the watchman? If they are being watched then we'll be free, and I don't give a darn what the FBI knows about me, if I know what brand of toothpaste the head of the FBI uses. That's the fundamental thing: Can we shine light on the mighty?


    JM: Some privacy groups have suggested a privacy commission to sort of oversee this sort of thing.

    DB: Oh, big government agencies become powers unto themselves. I prefer the ad hoc jury. I prefer that several hundred little ad hoc juries of Americans be cut loose with little red passes that let them walk through any door in our government and see anything. And before they get co-opted the pass expires, it only lasts for six months. And as much as possible, let us see. As I said in my City A and City B, the difference between those two cities is not the numbers of cameras. Cameras are coming. There's no avoiding it, there will be cameras outdoors everywhere we go. The question is, will we as a citizen be able to use them. That guy who almost knocked you off the freeway, who almost killed you the other day by running you off and then gave you the finger and laughed driving away. Wouldn't it be great if your car automatically recorded the episode and you dialed in and showed the scene to his mother?


    ---- ----
(1) | 2 | 3