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Linux Drivers For Free Barcode Scanner Cease-And-D...

Posted by CmdrTaco on Fri Sep 01, 2000 09:21 AM
from the in-a-world-full-of-lawyers dept.
On Aug. 30 several folks who have written Linux drivers and apps relating to the free barcode scanner mentioned here a few days ago were sent cease and desist orders demanding that they stop distributing the code. [updated by timothy 20:00 GMT: Please note that what flyingbuttmonkeys received is not officially a "cease and desist" letter; instead, it merely says that the longer the drivers are available, the "longer damages will accrue," citing "intellectual property rights owned by Digital Convergence." ] The barcode scanner is called a CueCat (with some lame marketroid colons that I'm not using because it irritates me when people name things like that). The code included a device driver written by Pierre-Philippe Coupard and a reader/decrypter written by Michael Rothwell. The code is afaik unavailable, but hopefully folks who downloaded it will have mirrors soon. I asked Michael to describe to me what his decoder did, and a few other questions.

> How complicated is the driver/what does it do?

It isn't terribly complicated. There's two programs that I wrote in the package, and one I did not. All are based on the "libcue" I wrote, also in the package. The deocder algorithm is a simple modified base-64 XOR 67. Jean-Philippe 'JP' Sugarbroad figured it out, and Colin Cross wrote code based on it and made me aware of it. I re-implemented it for the learning experience. The program named "decode" reads in a line of output from the cuecat for stdin or as first argument. CueCat output looks like this:

<ALT-F10>.C3nZC3nZC3nYDhv7D3DWCxnX.cGf2.ENr7C3b3DNbWChPXDxzZDNP6.

decode splits the Cue output into fields separeted buy ".". It ignores the first field and runs the rest through the base64+XOR decoder. This becomes the first line output. Digital Converegence added some additional "encryption" to their Web service; their program takes the output of the cuecat and inverts its case befoe sending it off to http://[server].dcnv.com/CRQ/1..[activation code].04.[cuecat scan].0

[Server] can be a, o, s, t, or u. [activation code] is supposed to be the activation code you get from your registration, but can be simply "ACTIVATIONCODE", which is actually what my spftware puts there. [cuecat scan] is the raw output of the device, minus the ALT-F10, with case inverted. Their servers send back a little blob of text containing several fields, including a suggested URL and description. Libcue parses those out and makes them available to its clients. Here's the scan of an NADA car-guide book:

The output of decode looks like this
DATA 000000001768443202 IB5 978034533392650599

CUE 0345333926
AMAZON 0345333926
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345333926/104-2159322-9263954
Ringworld Larry Niven
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0345333926.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif

The gnome panel applet reads in CueCat scans, looks up the :Cue at DCNV servers, and redirects Netscape to the suggested site, if any.

> What does their commercial software do exactly?

The same thing mine does, without the amazon lookup and with some annoying GUI features, like a tabbed CueCat panel.

> How many lines of code?

1258 according to "cat cuecat-applet.c cuecat-applet.h decode.c decode.h libcue.c libcue.h | wc -l"

Michael makes another interesting point in a seperate e-mail

When they sent the letter (Aug. 30), my software did not touch the DCNV servers to look up :Cues. It simply decoded the data, and if an ISBN number was scanned, the panel applet made Netscape go to the Amazon page blindly: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/[isbn number here].

So it was not the use of DCNV servers they objected to, but the mere decoding of the output of the cuecat. I didn't release the :Cue and Amazon lookup-enabled version until yesterday (Aug. 31), when the FedEx letter arrived by overnight delivery.

Thanks to Michael for taking the time to answer this stuff. It's pretty scary when the stuff that you have can't be poked at without a corporation demanding you stop. Imagine if Ford had said you can't open the hoods of your car a hundred years ago.

Update: 09/01 02:49 PM by CT : Freshmeat has a perl script CueCat Decoder that will also decode the CueCat's output.

Update: 09/01 02:57 PM by CT : Russel Nelson pointed out that Lineo's Driver has also been taken down following a cease and desist from Digital Convergence (CueCat's parent).

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  • harsh by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:32AM
  • What can they do? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:41AM
  • What nations does the order apply to? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:43AM
  • Re:What nations does the order apply to? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:11AM
  • Re:You missed the important part by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:29AM
  • Dear FlyingButtMonkeys: by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:19AM
  • Older barcode systems? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:43AM
  • Unsolicited Merchandise == Gift by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:00AM
  • Go to the source, luke! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:07AM
  • Forget :Cue:Cat - Time to create GNU-Cat! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:35PM
  • Mirror List by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @03:33PM
  • Re:Here is a idea by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:35AM
  • Re:Barcode Scanner? by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:51AM
  • BULL! (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 01 2000, @05:27AM (#811407)
    I signed nothing, I read nothing, I didn't even give them my name. I ripped open the bag, tossed the papers and CD in my pile of useless CD's. I took a screwdriver to the case and looked inside (rather dull actually).
    I agreed to NOTHING!
    In short, it is mine to do with as I will. I can write other software for it, sell or give it to someone else, let my dog chew on it or take it out back and use it for target practice.
    I'm surprised they found a lawyer who'd even write up the cease and desist as they don't have a case. It's been decided by the courts before, if you give something away for free it's no longer yours to control.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 01 2000, @04:37AM (#811408)
    I think he should go to court just so we can hear the judge and lawyers say "flying butt monkeys" a lot
  • Re:Do they even have a case? by Jim Buzbee (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:45AM
  • "Decode"? by RudeDude (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:32AM
  • Re:Decode spec by RudeDude (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:36AM
  • Decode spec (Score:4)

    by RudeDude (672) <RudeDude@@@gmail...com> on Friday September 01 2000, @05:28AM (#811412) Homepage Journal
    Here's the decode spec itself from the README found in the link driver:


    The encoding is a base64 (not MIME tho) with a random XOR thrown in. Each letter is a base 64 (6 bit) number, a is 0, z is 25, A is 26, Z is 51, 0 is 52, 9 is 61, + is 62, - is 63 (and fill in the blanks between there). A group of four of these 6 bit numbers are combined into a single 24 bit number, which is then split into three 8 bit ASCII codes (XORed with 67).

    Taral corrected my first perl script to solve the short code problem. If a group of 4 characters is not complete (ie there are only 2 characters), it should be padded with 0's ('a' in the base64 encoding), and then follow the same decoding process. Then chop off the same number of characters from the decoded string that were padded onto the encoded string.

    No tables/codes should be used anywhere - it is simply a coincidence that they work for numeric values, because the top 4 bits of all the number ASCII codes are the same, 0011 binary.

    If you want to print your own barcodes I suggest the encoding called "Code 128". I found a company (Elfring Fonts) that sells windows fonts and software to make it easy to encode your own stuff: http://www.barcodingfonts.com/ [barcodingfonts.com]
    ---
    Don Rude - AKA - RudeDude

  • Useless Use Of Cat award goes to... by Dom2 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:58AM
  • Here's an older version by smartin (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:08AM
  • by Masem (1171) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:59AM (#811415)
    What's not implicated stated in this particular slashdot story, but refered to previously, is that when you swipe with the scanner, the first part of the mumbojumbo you get back is a unique identifier for that scanner. This gets sent back to the server, and gee, at that point, what do you think it's used for?

    At which point, the software for Linux is compariable to clean room interoperability (legal by DCMA) and to junkbuster. Both which are legal, AFAIK.

  • How many languages can people do DecodeCat in? by Christopher B. Brown (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:37AM
  • (The Perl Version Could Be Tuned) by Christopher B. Brown (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @08:50AM
  • Not Much of a Device Driver by Christopher B. Brown (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @10:12AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by Samus (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:07AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by Samus (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:03AM
  • Another mirror by jmorris42 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @02:59PM
  • Re:Maybe the refer to the DeCSS case by AxelBoldt (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:51AM
  • Re:Cease and Desist? why? by Sabalon (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:45AM
  • Hey, I'm spinning my polycarbonate disk... by marcus (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:17AM
  • No, not audio CDs by marcus (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:24AM
  • Re:The most effective action may be... by KnightStalker (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:04PM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by Ex-NT-User (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:03AM
  • Re:And they would like your TV habits! by Brian Ristuccia (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:19AM
  • Some stores gathering names, others not. by Brian Ristuccia (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:25PM
  • Re:Even Worse: Digital Convergence Spies on You! by Brian Ristuccia (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @10:25AM
  • Every cuecat scan results in some garbage that looks like the following:

    .C3nZC3nZC3nZCxj2Dhz1C3nX.fHmc.DxPYE3b6C3nZC3jY.

    Hidden inside that code is the barcode type, and its numeric or alphanumeric equivilent. But there's more: There's also a serial number. And that serial number is probably easily matched up to the store where you picked up your cuecat device, or even to your name if you gave it to the clerk at the store.

    .C3nZC3nZC3nZCxj2Dhz1C3nX.fHmc.DxPYE3b6C3nZC3jY.
    000000000215756002 UPA 691839000011

    The first item in the second line is the serial number. Then the barcode, and then the numeric value of the UPC type A code. This serial number stuff is real bad news. It's like a cookie that can't be turned off, and it gets sent to Digital Convergence every time you scan a barcode that brings you to a web site using their software.

    Of course, they're going to be pissed about people using their barcode scanners without their spying software: They want to make money by seling your personal information. They know where you live. They know what books you read, and they know what products you buy, all by what you scan with their little cuespy.

    The cease and desist letter they've sent is a vague piece of crap. Its sole intent is to intimidate. They have no legal standing. First spying, now intimidation tactics? I think perhaps it's time for a TLO to investigate Digitial Convergence.

    I've mirrored the standalone cuecat decoder software at http://osiris.978.org/~brianr/cuecat/ [978.org].

  • Re:No Agreement Was Done. by psychosis (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:12AM
  • Let's see by Jaeger (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:44AM
  • by Svartalf (2997) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:44PM (#811434) Homepage
    If there's ambiguities, etc. that either invalidate or otherwise, they can't claim that the interpretation that is most favorable is the one that's the correct interpretation. Legally speaking, they have to be explicit in everything or it causes a loophole. Since they weren't explicit on the packaging, a claim on the WWW site doesn't give them footing in this regard.

    (Just because it's in the boilerplate at any location, doesn't mean it's legit- loads of companies alike try to pull fast ones all the time!)
  • Re:What "intellectual property"? by escher (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:11AM
  • Re:FLAME RADIOSHACK by aqua (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:32PM
  • Re: The license by fugue (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @11:19AM
  • Re:at least someone there... by weld (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:01PM
  • by mrbill (4993) <mrbill@mrbill.net> on Friday September 01 2000, @04:41AM (#811439) Homepage
    When I got mine (two of them) from Radio Shack,
    they just handed me the Cue:Cat in a baggie
    w/a CD-ROM, and a catalog. There is no legal
    license agreement saying I have to agree to
    anything to use the hardware - *ONLY* if you
    install the software (on a Windows box) do you
    have to agree to anything. I dont see where
    they have a case here. Nothing is being
    reverse-engineered, its only being decoded and
    interpeted.

    I'm going to write them - I was planning on
    writing a review of the unit in conjunction
    with the Sun PS/2 keyboard interface box and
    Sun's PCi pc-on-a-card product for PCI-bus
    SPARCstations (I actually got it to work).
    Now, I'll throw it in a drawer, and put up
    mirrors of this guy's code alongside my
    DeCSS archives.
  • Re:Too little too late. by Ares (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:39AM
  • Re:Anybody else got them? by Ares (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:52AM
  • My letter to digitalconvergence.com by KodaK (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:44PM
  • yes, but.... by MenTaLguY (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @11:15AM
  • by MenTaLguY (5483) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:58AM (#811444) Homepage

    I'm beginning to think we're headed into a new age where private property is abolished -- but instead of everything being owned by the state, it will be owned by corporations.

    Nader calls this Corporate Socialism. I'm beginning to think he has a point.

    Some days I wonder if we're headed toward a society where you can't even wipe your own butt for yourself, instead of having some corporation do it for you (for a nominal fee).

    If you did it yourself, you'd be depriving some butt-wiping company of revenue, you see. Putting honest, hard-working people out of jobs, for heaven's sakes!

    (if you disagree, you're a communist butt pirate and should be shipped off for re-education)

    This is severe hyperbole, of course, but unfortunately something very near that mindset is truly already out here in corporate-land.

  • Not only no specification of using the catalog... by TBone (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:28AM
  • by Jeffrey Baker (6191) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:44AM (#811446)
    That isn't a cease and desist letter, it is just a letter from some lawyers. A cease and desist letter would have the words "cease and desist" along with the word "demand" in it somewhere. There would also be a list of causes of action, as well as a date by which you must respond. This letter just looks like an attempt to make a bunch of hackers without lawyers start getting afraid of businessmen with lawyers.

    IANAL

  • Re:Useless Use Of Cat award goes to... by somnambule (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:15AM
  • Re:Useless Use Of Cat award goes to... by somnambule (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:40AM
  • This is your final answer. by jjr (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:38AM
  • Re:well don't forget by imp (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @11:46AM
  • by imp (7585) on Friday September 01 2000, @07:04AM (#811451) Homepage
    Sure, it said this in the software license that came with this item, but they are SOL. It isn't legally enforcible. I *NEVER* installed the software, so the terms of the sale is fixed when they gave it to me WITH MY OTHER PURCHASE. I bought a video amplifier and they gave me my cat. The contract for the entire transaction was fixed at the time I gave them my money (since it is impossible w/o software to fix the contract at a later point in time).

    In addition, the item was not free, but given to me (and everybody else) for good and fair compensation, namely the personal information. It can be shown that this information has a monitary value (just look at how much email lists and snailmail lists sell for), and therefore the exchange could likely be viewed as a "sale" for the purposes of the uniform commercial code.

    Software is a special case because it has labels on it stating that you are agreeig to a license, plus presents you with the license and a chance to repudiate the license and get a refund (in theory at least, when was the last time someone was able to return software they didn't like the license terms to, say, CompUSA).

    So I think they are SOL unless you installed their driver software. Which I've never done. I've not even taken it out of the packaging.

    P.S. If I were the author that got such a C&D letter, then I'd demand they get a whole lot more specific about what, exactly, was in violation. Such vague letters are easy and cheap to write and are meaningless in many cases because they aren't specific. Ask them for specifics. What, specifically, are they objecting to. What gives them the legal right to object to it (copyright claim, granted patent claim, trade secret, etc) so you have a chance to audit their claims. If they refuse, then you are in a much better position later if they file legal action against you.

  • Re:Here is a idea (Score:5)

    by SimonK (7722) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:36AM (#811452)
    Its probably not worth it. They're just sending threatening letters with vague comments about "intellectual property". I fail to see any protectable intellectual property in what they do, or what the Linux drivers do. You can't copyright protocols, they have not patents I'm aware of, there's no trademark infringement. All thats been done is the reverse engineering of something they might consider to be a trade secret, but in themselves trade secrets have not legal protection.

    They haven't a leg to stand on, and I doubt they'll even find grounds to sue.
  • Re:People with limited imaginations are so funny. by Kitanin (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @05:36AM
  • All computers are illegal by RichMan (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:15AM
  • Re:A solution by RichMan (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:56AM
  • Re:*think*, people by Anonymous Coed (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @02:00PM
  • Re:Tee Shirt ??? by waldoj (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:02AM
  • They Should Be Thrilled by waldoj (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:10AM
  • Time to Tithe 10% of Gross Salary to EFF by rthille (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:30AM
  • Damaging "intellectual property" by llywrch (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:57AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by Cid Highwind (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:39AM
  • Re:Port it to windows by paulbort (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:49AM
  • The EULA applies ... you are using the software. by latham (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:54AM
  • Re:What about outside the US? by K. (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:56AM
  • James Rosini by Hygelac (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:48AM
  • Lousy business model by Peter Desnoyers (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @05:36AM
  • Re:Even Worse: Digital Convergence Spies on You! by esper (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:08AM
  • Class-action countersuit??? by WillWare (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @10:30AM
  • You don't seem to get it. by Jon3 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:27AM
  • Re:Can we write CueCat? by arivanov (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:35AM
  • Lawyers by nixon (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:10AM
  • They should do an end-run around the user by Captain Pillbug (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:41AM
  • Well, it's GPLed by Captain Pillbug (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:04AM
  • Re:Here is a idea by Captain Pillbug (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:07AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by TyFoN (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:55AM
  • most likely: web/barcode linking patents by jetson123 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @10:07AM
  • don't link isbns to amazon by tregoweth (Score:1) Monday September 04 2000, @12:19PM
  • Rest in pieces by Wokan (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:55PM
  • Uhm.. what if you threw the thing away?? by The Optimizer (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:55AM
  • Re:McD's PR spin worked by pheonix (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @12:20PM
  • John Huncke by SonOfFlubber (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @10:06AM
  • Re:You missed the important part by griffjon (Score:2) Sunday September 03 2000, @08:07AM
  • by Sloppy (14984) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:49AM (#811483) Homepage Journal

    Therefore, unfortunately, we are all bound by those license terms.

    Eh? Even if I were to accept the wildly controversial assertion that opening the software causes you to be bound by the license, there's still a big problem: just about everyone here (except for the Windows users) didn't open the software. The CueCat got plugged into the computer, and the unopened Windows software went into the trash, just like the Windows drivers disk that comes with most the hardware that we buy.


    ---
  • by sethg (15187) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:40AM (#811484) Homepage
    The meat of the letter is this sentence:
    It has come to Digital Convergence's attention that services/information being offered at such sites ... are in conflict with intellectual property rights owned by Digital Convergence.
    This is so vague, it makes me think that the lawyers (and Digital Convergence) don't really know what's going on. Somebody at Digital Convergence or its law firm probably saw that the Linux software was available, found out that someone outside the company had wrote them, and ASS-U-ME-D that you had copied their software.

    So if your code looks nothing like theirs, they won't be able to prove that you violated their copyright by posting it, and everything will be copacetic.

    Of course, IANAL.

    And I'm glad I downloaded that stuff yesterday.
    --

  • by sterno (16320) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:56AM (#811485) Homepage
    Correct me if I'm wrong lawyers in the audience, but a cease and desist letter really doesn't mean anything. That is to say, I can send you a cease and desist letter to tell you to stop drinking Pepsi. It doesn't mean I have any legal merit in a lawsuit and it doesn't mean I will sue you, but it is essentially an official threat.

    Now, CueCat, I'm guessing is concerned that RadioShack will stop giving away the scanners because they can be hacked to work with competing barcodes. Thus they'll stop sending money to cue cat. But I don't see any legal basis for there case. I mean no copyrights were infringed, no licenses broken. Reverse engineering (outside of the realm of the DMCA possibly), is a long defended right. If CueCat does sue, I can't imagine they'd stand a chance.

    That being said, if one cannot afford the lawyers and take the risk of being sued, then this may be a somewhat moot point (and you know cuecat is hoping for that). So, everybody get your check books ready, looks like we're gonna have to send some more funding to smack down the dumb corporations.

    ---

  • Re:"Clean" countries in europe? by DaKrushr (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @11:39AM
  • These guys are funded by Microsoft by Skapare (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:40PM
  • Is My Javascript Decoder Illegal? by raygundan (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:16AM
  • by raygundan (16760) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:55AM (#811489) Homepage
    Sorry about the link tag-- I was in a hurry and screwed up, but it is at that URL. I just verified it by clicking on the link myself. Xoom is incredibly slow-- so be patient. The JavaScript decoder is here. [xoom.com] Hit reload if it doesn't go through the first time.
  • My Flame to DC by Non-Newtonian Fluid (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @08:36AM
  • Readerware by rw2 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @09:17AM
  • Re:Readerware by rw2 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @09:31AM
  • riiiight by linuxgod (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:35AM
  • Re:legality by SpacePunk (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:31AM
  • A solution by SpacePunk (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:47AM
  • cease and desist this. by Ice Station Zebra (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:47AM
  • Where'd you get that idea? by LionMan (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:07AM
  • COPA? by Black Parrot (Score:2) Saturday September 02 2000, @12:31AM
  • Talk to the CEO by geoGIF (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:54AM
  • AH HA! by klasiphyd (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @10:52AM
  • Re:You missed the important part by klasiphyd (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @10:59AM
  • Re: This Comment is FREE by klasiphyd (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @11:03AM
  • Re:This is just stupid by kramer (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:19AM
  • Re:Even Worse: Digital Convergence Spies on You! by kramer (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:34AM
  • by kramer (19951) on Friday September 01 2000, @06:05AM (#811505) Homepage
    BIG FAT IANAL

    A friend of mine pointed out that Cuecats are being sent to various subscribers of Wired and Forbes and possibly other magazines as a promotion.

    Now IIRC, federal law states that any unsolicited merchandise received by mail is a gift. This federal law would supercede any click through license agreement. It's no longer theirs, and you're free to do with the hardware as you see fit.
  • Discrepancy between license and advertising by HugoRune (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:45AM
  • Re:screw this by Asim (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:48AM
  • its funny to see by acomj (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:02AM
  • Re:What "intellectual property"? by angelo (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:42AM
  • Re:This is your final answer. by angelo (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:02AM
  • Re:Well named by angelo (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:48AM
  • Re:You don't seem to get it. by angelo (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:08AM
  • Re:Hehhe by Vagary (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:23AM
  • ROTFL! by Kaa (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:48AM
  • Re:An email I just sent to info@CRQ.com by The Infamous TommyD (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:08AM
  • by The Infamous TommyD (21616) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:57AM (#811516)

    I am writing to express my utter disgust with your corporation's heavy handed
    tactics against innocent programmers trying to use the CueCat on other
    operating systems. The free CueCat software that has been developed and
    posted to the Internet in no way infringes on your intellectual property. It
    is simply a driver for the device! I am certain that no use was made of your
    copyrighted material (i.e. software that came with the cuecat) to learn to
    decode the cuecat's output. (It really is not a difficult thing to do simply
    by analyzing the output of the device.) Also, note that users of the cuecat
    are not required to sign any form of non-disclosure agreement so no
    "intellectual property" could be released there. As for Trade Secrets, do you
    think that someone broke into your property to steal a secret that could be
    decoded by anyone with a pencil, paper, and a bit of time?

    Obviously, we aren't talking about patents here or trademarks. So nothing is
    left. Your use of the legal system to stifle free development of software that
    supports your device is utterly reprehensible and you deserve to be sued for
    harassment!
  • What's next: "Convergence Cable" by slashkitty (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @02:41PM
  • Re:Free use of IEFT standards (Base64)? by Xenu (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @11:33AM
  • Re:IANAL: Do I have any obligation to these people by RuphSkunk (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:32AM
  • Re:The EULA applies ... you are using the software by RuphSkunk (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @02:03PM
  • Federal Postal law (IANAL) by RuphSkunk (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @12:43PM
  • by RuphSkunk (22588) on Friday September 01 2000, @12:34PM (#811522)
    This seems to be very relevant:

    [cornell.edu]

    US Code Title 39, Part IV, Chapter 30, Section 3009. Here is an excerpt:

    (b) Any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained therein, may be treated as a gift by the recipient, who shall have the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender. All such merchandise shall have attached to it a clear and conspicuous statement informing the recipient that he may treat the merchandise as a gift to him and has the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender.

    This section also references Title 15, Chapter 2, Subchapter 1, Section 45, regarding unfair business practices. I thing The barcode scanner manufactures could sue on unlawful distribution.

  • Take Them At Their Word by crawling_chaos (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:30AM
  • Mirror List by Periwinkle (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @03:59PM
  • Re:well don't forget by WNight (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @02:04PM
  • Re:Even Worse: Digital Convergence Spies on You! by WNight (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @02:27PM
  • by WNight (23683) on Friday September 01 2000, @02:23PM (#811527) Homepage
    This is a great idea. They're commiting nearly fraudulent acts (threatening legal action when they know no crime has been committed and no criminal harm has been done.) so we might as well fight back, not just against their current moves, but against the company itself.

    If the only thing that have that's worth anything is the data, lets ruin the data. They're not paying us for data and nobody signed a contract guaranteeing accurate data, so let's screw it up royally.

    There are many ways...

    1) Random IDs, your stuff... Makes it look like tons of people use it once or twice and throw it away after scanning random stuff.

    2) Random ID (singular), List of Stuff... Makes it look like tons of people own exactly the same things, usefullness depends on how many people scan the exact same list.

    3) Random IDs, Barcodes of favorite products... Makes it appear that thousands of people are scanning the same products. What a way to boost your favorite band's sales figures, etc.

    No scanner is needed for this, just an app that will make the appropriate net connection and report a given serial # and UPC code. Then lists of stuff we want to promote (hacker-friendly bands, O'Reilly books, etc) can be passed around for people to boost their sales figures.
  • Re:Do they even have a case? by Zerth (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:54AM
  • Read the fine print; they never "gave" it to you by Krimsen (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:50AM
  • by Krimsen (26685) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:29AM (#811530) Homepage
    Yes that is the one thing ConversantShogun pointerd out here [slashdot.org]... The whole license is contingent on you seeing it. I checked everything that came in the little plastic baggie, including the manual and the CD case and there was no copy of the license there. It just said that using the software was contingent on accepting the license - it never said anything about any license associated with using the hardware... loophole possibly?
  • FOUND IT! (Score:4)

    by Krimsen (26685) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:56AM (#811531) Homepage
    Here is the exact text, from their site:
    The :CueCat reader is only on loan to you from Digital:Convergence and may be recalled at any time. Without limiting the foregoing, your possession or control of the :CueCat reader does not transfer any right, title or interest to you in the :CueCat reader.

    If you want to view it yourself, check here [digitalconvergence.com] and go down to the third heading called "Permitted Uses and Restrictions". Read about halfway down that section, then be careful you don't hurt youself as your jaw drops into your lap.
  • Re:Decode spec by Zwack (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:58AM
  • Re:average people need to do more for themselves by quux26 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:17AM
  • We think there's something wrong... So stop it. by Croatian Sensation (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:07AM
  • Marketdroid Colon? by DougLandry (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @09:54AM
  • Re:Cease and Desist by SEWilco (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:06AM
  • PayPal EFF by SEWilco (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:11AM
  • Re:What "intellectual property"? by SEWilco (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:58AM
  • Re:What "intellectual property"? by alkali (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:35AM
  • Re:... and monkeys will fly out of my butt!!! by alkali (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:59AM
  • Re:Cease and Desist doen't mean much... by alkali (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:22AM
  • Re:McD's PR spin worked by Billy Donahue (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:36PM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by Billy Donahue (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:03PM
  • Free use of IEFT standards (Base64)? by Dr. Manhattan (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:44AM
  • Re:What about outside the US? by Aqualung (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @11:39AM
  • My GF thinks the cue:cat is cute by ascheuch (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:59AM
  • Check your soup cans online! by Crusadio (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:22PM
  • Re:No Agreement Was Done. by dublin (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:35PM
  • Does the license apply to me? by Lancer (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:54AM
  • Why not Optical Mice Reading Barcodes? by topham (Score:1) Saturday September 02 2000, @08:34AM
  • by deacent (32502) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:24AM (#811551)

    From the Permitted Uses and Restrictions section of the CueCat license:

    You acknowledge that the Software and :CueCat reader contain trade secrets and other proprietary information of Digital:Convergence and its licensors. Except as expressly permitted in this License, you may not decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, modify, rent, lease, loan, sublicense, distribute or create derivative works based upon the :CRQ software or :CueCat reader in whole or part or transmit the :CRQ software over a network or from one computer to another.

    [snip]

    In any event, you will notify Digital:Convergence of any information derived from reverse engineering or such other activities, and the results thereof will constitute the confidential information of Digital:Convergence that may be used only in connection with the Software and :CueCat reader.

    DISCLAIMER: IANAL

    This leagalize does give them a leg to stand on. It's a matter of whether a court of law will find it enforcable. I guess it's a lot like the EULA. As long as Radio Shack employees aren't forcing anyone to sign an agreement, I think this license is unenforcable.

    -Jennifer

  • Re:Maybe the refer to the DeCSS case by Another MacHack (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:15AM
  • IANAL: Do I have any obligation to these people? by Rocketboy (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:10AM
  • by Rocketboy (32971) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:40AM (#811554)
    Here are a couple of e-mails I sent. The first was to DigitalConvergence, makers of this toy:

    "Our company has received several of your CueCat scanners via Forbes recently and I would like to know whether you would prefer us to return them to you or to Forbes, or to just trash them. While there is some potential value in this device, your company's business practices are offensive enough that we have no desire to use them at this time (re: "Cease and Desist" letters to developers of Linux drivers for your device.) Better luck next time.

    Sincerely,

    etc etc

    Then I sent this one to subscriber@forbes.com:

    "Please stop sending the CueCat device to subscribers of Forbes magazine at XYZ Corporation. We find CueCat's business practices deeply offensive and will simply dispose of any such devices which we receive. As subscribers to your magazine, we find your association with these predatory and possibly illegal business practices to be deeply disturbing and we hope that your choice of business partners is merely an temporary aberration, not an indication of future trends. Thank you very much.

    Respectfully,

    etc etc

    Possibly they can be educated, possibly not. But I won't do business with either of them until they demonstrate some enlightenment. :)

    mjs
  • Re:What can they do? by nmarshall (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:57AM
  • I never agreed to that. by Russ Nelson (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:22AM
  • Re:An email I just sent to info@CRQ.com by segmond (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:03AM
  • Re:You missed the important part by thrash_ (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:03AM
  • CueCat also used for Parade Magazine by Alowishus (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:23AM
  • Re:Do they even have a case? by Colol (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @01:10PM
  • Re:A Brave New EULA by slacker990 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @11:14AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by Tower (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:10AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by Foxman98 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:24AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by Foxman98 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:29AM
  • Re:screw this by The_H0und (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:20PM
  • by Noodles (39504) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:40AM (#811566)
    Ummm... I have seen punctuation marks used in other names too: /.
  • Looks like we have another case of the stupids on our hands.

    I can't wait until Burger King starts handing out free toys and then sends cease and decist letters to anybody using it for propping a wobbly table leg.

    For crying out loud, this stupid instance will probably make it into court soon just like the stupid DeCSS case.

    Why on earth do courts (yes, I know it is not in court yet, I am just proving that I am psychic;-) even bother to hear cases based on this crap?

    Visit DC2600 [dc2600.com]
  • Re:Hehhe by LoveMuscle (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @11:25AM
  • Naming Fun by _Sprocket_ (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:58AM
  • Re:Even Worse: Digital Convergence Spies on You! by thogard (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @03:47PM
  • Can we write CueCat? by georgeha (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:28AM
  • For vocational training by georgeha (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:40AM
  • Re:average people need to do more for themselves by M-G (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:02AM
  • Re:legality by ncc74656 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:29AM
  • Let them know how you feel by kerskine (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:34AM
  • Isn't Canada the whole world? by alteridem (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @05:23PM
  • Re:legality by crm0922 (Score:1) Saturday September 02 2000, @07:11AM
  • Re:What "intellectual property"? by interiot (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:56AM
  • Re:I suspect this is just a misunderstanding by interiot (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:33AM
  • by interiot (50685) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:13AM (#811580) Homepage
    Exactly. Sega vs. Accolade established that reverse engineering was legal. DMCA says that reverse engineering isn't allowed except for the purpose of interoperability. I don't see libcue as doing anything besides allowing interoperability, so libcue seems to be legal even if DMCA is upheld.
  • Re:Here's the link to Wired re:CueCat by mikefoley (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:33AM
  • My Response by The Original Bobski (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:56PM
  • Re:FOUND IT! by 1010011010 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:11AM
  • Re:Being proactive... by 1010011010 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:36AM
  • Re:Why did you cave? by 1010011010 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:50AM
  • Re:Decode spec by 1010011010 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:54AM
  • perl decoder by TheTomcat (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:50AM
  • Re:How many languages can people do DecodeCat in? by klund (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:11AM
  • screw this (Score:5)

    by klund (53347) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:31AM (#811589)
    From his page: I'm beginning to think we're headed into a new age where private property is abolished -- but instead of everything being owned by the state, it will be owned by corporations.

    I'm sending $100 to the EFF [eff.org] today. This kind of crap has got to stop.

    I hope everyone who reads this article (and who can afford it) will join me.
    --
  • Re:Do they even have a case? by wolf- (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:12AM
  • Re:Even Worse: Digital Convergence Spies on You! by pirodude (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @10:27AM
  • Where's the code? by Kether (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:43AM
  • Uhm..Duh. by NetJunkie (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:29AM
  • by NetJunkie (56134) <jason.nash@gWELTYmail.com minus author> on Friday September 01 2000, @05:22AM (#811594)
    They messed up. If you don't install the Digital Convergence software you NEVER agree to any license or agreement. When I got mine from Radio Shack I signed nothing. I also didn't even break a seal to get it out of the bag it came in. I also never installed their software. I'm using the above mentioned software for linux.

    Since they can't win this, I hope the linux community keeps writing software for this device and DOES NOT ever go through the Digital Convergence servers. Let's show them what happens when letters like this get thrown around without thinking.

    Good luck Digital Convergence. :)
  • Re:You missed the important part by topeka (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:16AM
  • Re:Almost funny. by radja (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:01AM
  • Re:another thought by radja (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:14AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by radja (Score:2) Monday September 04 2000, @01:39AM
  • Maybe the refer to the DeCSS case by gotan (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:37AM
  • Port it to windows by gotan (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:50AM
  • Mirror/links by kgasso (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @02:23PM
  • Re:Can we write CueCat? by Snard (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:52AM
  • Re:Being proactive... by SvnLyrBrto (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:58AM
  • Re:And they would like your TV habits! by jabberw0k (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:34AM
  • Look, Mommy! A moron!!! by cantherius (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:13AM
  • Re:McD's PR spin worked by dhogaza (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:08AM
  • Only in the US? by jqs (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:58AM
  • Re:Ahhhhhhh but by Paranoid Diatribe (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:13AM
  • Re:average people need to do more for themselves by Cramer (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:59AM
  • Eee Gads, BRILLIANT Brain... by Cramer (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:10AM
  • Use their own tactics against them by base10 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:36AM
  • The issue appears to be the name... by kylerk (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:47AM
  • Re:Can we write CueCat? by Cebert (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @07:59AM
  • And the moral of the story is ...... by taniwha (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:35AM
  • Another way to protest .... by taniwha (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:18AM
  • Re:Read the fine print; they never "gave" it to yo by fyl (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:58AM
  • Is That Prior art invalidating DCM Patent? by OmniGeek (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:45AM
  • Then they've already lost the war by OmniGeek (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:50AM
  • Re:Do they even have a case? by turbosk (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:01AM
  • Re:What "intellectual property"? by turbosk (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:53PM
  • by zerodvyd (73333) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:46AM (#811621)
    My company uses tethered barcode scanners on a regular basis, in fact each of my in-process workstation have one connected. These puppies cost about $300 a pop, connect to PS/2 port and provide a pass-through for standard keyboard attachment to it. What's even better is that the piece of hardware will scan just about any barcode, decode it, and send it as if it were a keyboard input stream ...with a hit to the enter key at the end of the input string.

    these have no driver requirements whatsoever
    they work on every OS I've tested them on (NT, 9x, *nix/x86)

    Why did this CueCat (yup, next is the CueDog right? or CueMouse?) require so much effort to just dump for free into the hands of the end user??? Call me crazy, but if I were going to hand something out for free, I wouldn't devote any time to serious development like a minor encryption scheme... I bet the next version of it is supposed to have an IP address per CueCat.

    This kind of thing should be covered under Fair Use. Though I'll lay money (in the hands of EFF) that they'll continue blithely on their prosecution path and try to pull the DMCA down on the developer's head because it defeats a 'digital copy protection' scheme of some format.

    If they're angry that they lost money on the development of the device, they have nobody to blame but their own developers and marketers. KIS - Keep It Simple.

    If I get my hands on one of these things I do have a door that doesn't like to stay open, sounds like an adequate door stop. Will I get a Cease and Desist order too?

    please
    zerodvyd
  • Don't use your toys by rkent (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:42AM
  • Re:Hehhe by ahodgson (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:42AM
  • My email to info@crq.com by Darnit (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:01AM
  • Re:Do they even have a case? by Darnit (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:32AM
  • Re:phantom license agreements by wcb4 (Score:1) Saturday September 02 2000, @03:10PM
  • Why a cease and desist? by pete-classic (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:11AM
  • device driver by ZeePrime (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:21AM
  • OT by Pfhreakaz0id (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:04AM
  • Re:screw this by puppet10 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:03AM
  • Re:It's easy. by puppet10 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:36AM
  • Re:What "intellectual property"? by RobNich (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:29AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by lalas (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:25AM
  • Why would RS allow this by Scorcher (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:21AM
  • Sue them first (Score:4)

    by Greyfox (87712) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:01AM (#811635) Homepage
    I'm fucking sick of this.

    1) Sue them seeking a declaratory judgement that you're not infringing on anything.

    2) Once you win that, sue them in civil court for harassment.

  • Digital Convergence doesn't have a leg to stand on by dudeman2 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:23AM
  • legality (Score:3)

    by Skorpion (88485) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:26AM (#811637) Homepage
    Is this legal ? I undestand that they may have objections on ways of using their servers, but what with hardware they give away ?

    Alex

  • at least someone there... by jbridge21 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @11:46AM
  • Re:at least someone there... by jbridge21 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:27PM
  • Re:What about outside the US? by wannabe (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:33AM
  • Here's my version of a letter by ardran (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:08AM
  • What about outside the US? by DaisyEmmett (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:43AM
  • Radio Shack's Response by eap (Score:1) Saturday September 02 2000, @06:09AM
  • :Fuck:Off by Rogain (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:14PM
  • Other than intended purposes... by Zibby (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:46AM
  • Hmmm... Can I send it back? by lenski (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:52AM
  • Re:Hey, I'm spinning my polycarbonate disk... by TheCarp (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:06AM
  • Re:No, not audio CDs by TheCarp (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2000, @06:34AM
  • Re:HW eulas (Score:4)

    by TheCarp (96830) <sjc.carpanet@net> on Friday September 01 2000, @05:18AM (#811649) Homepage
    hmmmm ok I can see EULAs for software, its a standard insudtry practice, and there is even law now that makes shrink wrap licences semi-legitimate for scopyrighted works.

    However...this is hardware. A Physical device. It is not a copyrighted work. So wouldn't any such type of licence legally require them to go through some measure of proper contract procedure?

    Do you have to sign anything to get one of these readers? If they don't make it CLEAR ahead of time, then its their own fault for being stupid.

    Personally though, I have to agree, this idea of moving on to a future where corperations own everything and we just licence it, gives me extreme nausea.

    I guess its their world, we are just living in it.

    -Steve
  • Cooltown by dingbat_hp (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:39AM
  • Re:You missed the important part by Sc00ter (Score:1) Sunday September 03 2000, @05:12AM
  • Re:You missed the important part by Punto (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:56AM
  • Re:average people need to do more for themselves by cybercuzco (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:58AM
  • Re:average people need to do more for themselves by cybercuzco (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:06AM
  • It doesn't spy on me. by vanguard (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @03:32PM
  • Re:What "intellectual property"? by haystor (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:25AM
  • Here's the link to Wired re:CueCat by uqbar (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:33AM
  • Re:Hehhe by JohnnyGTO (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:07PM
  • Futurecast... by rongen (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:41AM
  • Re:"Clean" countries in europe? by joshua42 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:35AM
  • Re:Cease and Desist by undertoad (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:25AM
  • Re:Is My Javascript Decoder Illegal? by FoxIVX (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:27AM
  • Re:Hehhe by Seelo (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:18PM
  • Perl module by martial (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:42AM
  • Re:Do they even have a case? by wanna (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:53AM
  • Re:legality by sethdelackner (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @02:16PM
  • Another silly idea. by FroMan (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @05:18AM
  • Re:McD's PR spin worked by kjhambrick (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @03:18PM
  • Re:Even Worse: Digital Convergence Spies on You! by mjphil (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:13PM
  • by (void*) (113680) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:19AM (#811670)
    It never ceases to amaze me how lame some people are. A few months ago, I bought some bedside tables from IKEA, and used them a bedside table, a phone table, and a small table for working. Does IKEA get to sue to me for using a bedside table as something else?

    In eactly the same fashion, Radioshack gives you a barcode scanner and they expect you to use it on their catalogues and their catalogues only. Nevermind that it could be used elsewhere. You should stop doing it now, and get ANOTHER barcode scanner for that. If cuecat was so unimaginative as to think that are as unimaginative as they are, trying to make a lame business out of these kind of artificial restrictions, they should find something else to do - really.

  • Barcode wand terminal uses by illtud (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:39AM
  • Re:Let them know how you feel by Ivan the Terrible (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:32AM
  • perl source by sPaKr (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:10AM
  • WWVBD? by ciaohound (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:17AM
  • The way to complain to CueCat by doublem (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:09AM
  • How do you build a Bar Code Scanner? by doublem (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:24AM
  • Re:Here is a idea by c_chimelis (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:42AM
  • A few thoughts... by c_chimelis (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:03AM
  • Bigger Picture by chchchain (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:43AM
  • Their Own Game by chchchain (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:16AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by SirGeek (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:49AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by SirGeek (Score:1) Saturday September 02 2000, @08:10AM
  • Really lame complaint by Animats (Score:2) Tuesday September 05 2000, @06:40AM
  • Re:"Clean" countries in europe? by jallen02 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:30AM
  • A suggestion for Mr. Rothwell by jhr (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @03:52PM
  • Re:What "intellectual property"? by pallex (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:17AM
  • How to make all this **** just go away. by kd5biv (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:16AM
  • Re:Here is a idea by kd5biv (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:23AM
  • Money by Zelphyr (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:32AM
  • Re:Same here - and the 1st ammendment by tz (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:10AM
  • Re:Here's the link to Wired / CueCat - Link Gone? by tz (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:20AM
  • Get your cuecat's now!!! by chipwich (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:18PM
  • you can read it manually by ArchieBunker (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:23AM
  • well don't forget by ArchieBunker (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:26AM
  • Re:FOUND IT! by rotten_ (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:14AM
  • Re:Corporation annoyance recipe... by rgmoore (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:30AM
  • Kinda depends on the definition of Funny by delevant (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:36AM
  • Re:The most effective action may be... by awch (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:10PM
  • Re:Cheaper beer and groceries by luckykaa (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:08AM
  • Re:What "intellectual property"? by luckykaa (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:29AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by luckykaa (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:33AM
  • Licenceing property by luckykaa (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:58AM
  • Re:Being proactive... by luckykaa (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:12AM
  • "No signature != not a contract" by luckykaa (Score:1) Saturday September 02 2000, @12:08AM
  • Almost funny. by Farq Fenderson (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:38AM
  • CueCat not a waste by mashy (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @11:48AM
  • Tee Shirt ??? (Score:3)

    by preferred_nick (136626) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:47AM (#811707)
    So where do I get a tee-shirt with the code ???:)
  • Re:Cease and Desist? why? by sik puppy (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:48AM
  • Re:This is just stupid by Scrag (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @03:55PM
  • Cuecat Experiences by Scrag (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @03:56PM
  • Re:Being proactive... by Scrag (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:07PM
  • Re:People with limited imaginations are so funny. by Dust31 (Score:1) Sunday September 03 2000, @04:59PM
  • Now THAT'S a good idea! by pestie (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:25AM
  • Re:Even Worse: Digital Convergence Spies on You! by egburr (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:16PM
  • Re:Clearly trying it on by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @12:42PM
  • Re:Even Worse: Digital Convergence Spies on You! by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @01:03PM
  • by rjnerd (143758) on Friday September 01 2000, @06:48AM (#811717) Homepage
    If someone mails you something, unsolicited (even in error) its yours. Those that got them in the mail without asking for one, own the hardware. Federal law says the "hardware license" part of the "contract" is void.

    (this got enacted after places started sending people unsolicited "merchandise", followed by a bill. Its very clear now, you mail it to someone without their asking for it, they own it)

    I can't comment on the "loan" status for those that asked for one at ratshack.

  • Hehhe (Score:5)

    by dizee (143832) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:40AM (#811718) Homepage
    I'm sure the person that typed up that cease and desist letter kept a straight face.

    I can see that conversation:

    Law firm: So you want to sue flying butt monkeys?
    DC: Yup.
    Law firm: Riiiight...

    But anyhow, this is just ridiculous, it's a physical product that sends output like a keyboard, basically, it is a keyboard. We can do anything we want to with it. We can destroy it, we can pee on it, we can set it on fire, we can strap gi joes and 74 bottle rockets to it and boldy send it where no cat-shaped bar code reader has gone before. We paid for it (granted it cost $0), it's ours.

    The nerve of this company is absolutely absurd. Tonight, I'm going to write as many useless (maybe even useful) programs that use the scanner as I can just to piss them off.

    Really, what is the world coming to (or at least the US)? I feel that there's going to have to be a revolution before too long, ya know? Kill all the stupid people!

    Mike

    "I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
  • This is what you get... by mcrbids (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:54AM
  • Bullshit by Psi-kick Guy (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @01:23PM
  • This is not really about IP - it's about revenue by markana (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:13AM
  • I love this guy! by djrogers (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:25AM
  • Patent coming Soon! by neilmjoh (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:19PM
  • Re:FOUND IT! by _Nemmeran_ (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:33AM
  • Re:Cease and Desist by |_uke (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:34AM
  • Re:I suspect this is just a misunderstanding by tralfamador (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:55AM
  • Why they did it by xercist (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:49AM
  • Re:ROTFL! by Nidhogg (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:55AM
  • They should really be mad at... by imagineer_bob (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:20AM
  • Read the link, dumbass by TheFrood (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:52PM
  • Re:You missed the important part by Seqram (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:04PM
  • Doing my part by fedaykin (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:34AM
  • Here is a idea by SquadBoy (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:28AM
  • Re:Cease and Desist by Cannonball (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:44AM
  • Is the US a Democracy? by anubis__ (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:30AM
  • by streetlawyer (169828) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:48AM (#811736) Homepage
    Subject: Not everything which resembles a c&d letter, is one

    One to be filed in the round file, methinks. A cease-and-desist letter worth paying attention to would have said exactly what IP was being infirnged (clue: none is) and used the words "cease", "desist" and "remove". This is just something threatening dire consequences in unspecific terms.

    Charitably, one might assume that they are putting a marker down; they don't know whether they might have a problem with flying butt monkeys, but they do know that if they ever need to prosecute in future, they'd better not be found in proof that they knew about this software for a while, but did nothing about it.

    Irritating, perhaps, but part of the price we have to pay for a common-law based system. The alternative would be for there to be government-provided coding licenses and prior restraints of what code you can write.

  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by CorporateProgrammerD (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:47AM
  • And I still do not have it ... by ParrotDroppings (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:11PM
  • Re:And I still do not have it ... by ParrotDroppings (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:13PM
  • Re:at least someone there... by ParrotDroppings (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @12:17PM
  • Re:Do they even have a case? by broody (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:55AM
  • Re:Tee Shirt ??? by broody (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:18AM
  • by broody (171983) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:12AM (#811743)

    I haven't found that guys code but here is a page [plover.net] that is still alive.

  • What the... by taliver (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:35AM
  • Why did you cave? by ravi_n (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:06AM
  • intellectual property? by 20000hitpoints (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:45AM
  • another thought by 20000hitpoints (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:50AM
  • it's even worse than that by 20000hitpoints (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:07AM
  • the real nature of this by 20000hitpoints (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:45AM
  • Re:the real nature of this by 20000hitpoints (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:02AM
  • Kenyon & Kenyon are dead by rigorist (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:25AM
  • Do they even have a case? by Sawbones (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:36AM
  • Re:Is the US a Democracy? by eean (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:33AM
  • 'Democracy' is not that simple by eean (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:04AM
  • Re:'Democracy' is not that simple by eean (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:18PM
  • Re:What nations does the order apply to? by danheskett (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:04AM
  • Re:legality by danheskett (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:00AM
  • Re:FOUND IT! by mp3car (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:04AM
  • Re:Too little too late. by talesout (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:58AM
  • Re:Hehhe by talesout (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:10AM
  • Being proactive... by Legolas-Greenleaf (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:22AM
  • Re:McD's PR spin worked by Legolas-Greenleaf (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @06:31AM
  • by Legolas-Greenleaf (181449) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:59AM (#811763)
    Personally, I think that Digital Convergence will listen to Radioshack a little more attentively then it will to me. For one thing, Radioshack stands something to lose from having boycotting customers and should act on their behalf. Digital Convergence, on the other hand, makes no direct money off of me, so is under no real obligation to listen to me. However, if Radioshack threatened to pull their scanner, which i assume they pay nice sums of money for, then Digital Convergence would have to listen. I think this would probably be a more productive way to approach this problem.
    -legolas

    i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...

  • by Legolas-Greenleaf (181449) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:46AM (#811764)
    Actually, in that case (as has been discussed many times on slashdot), she had good reason to sue. The reason we think of her as some idiot spilling coffee on herself is a successful PR spin by McDonalds.

    As you can see at this page, entitled the actual facts of the mcdonalds coffee case [lectlaw.com], the coffee was quite overly hot. This is beyond the hot you expect coffee - it was served at between 180 and 190 F (most places serve it at about 140). This was enough to burn through her sweatpants and cause 3rd degree burns to 6% of her body, including some very tender spots. She required $20k in reconstructive plastic surgery. If the coffee was even at 155 F, she would have avoided serious injury. Initially, she asked McD's for just the money to cover the surgery, but when she refused and discovered over 700 claims from between 1980 and 1992, including cases of 3rd degree burns, she did the full-out lawsuit. Also, the jury found her 20% at fault, which is why she only got $160k of the $200k awarded to her. Since that time, the temperature of the coffee at that peticular McD's has been dropped to 158 F.

    Just letting 'ya know the facts. =^)
    -legolas

    i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...

  • Re:You don't seem to get it. by warkeng (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:40AM
  • Well named by Badmovies (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:08AM
  • Re:Do they even have a case? by xamfear (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:27AM
  • It's easy. by Moderation abuser (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:32AM
  • by Desdinova77 (184164) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:59AM (#811769)
    http://www.cuecat.com/faq.html Has a link to their privacy policy. There they admit they collect 'demographic' data and makers of the decode program acknoledge that your 'id' number is sent and can be replaced witha generic code. They dont care about the scanner or the software. They property they are protecting is thier ability to track your internet usage.
  • I've passed this to some columnists... by satch89450 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @08:55AM
  • I've learned something from DeCSS by bsdbigot (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:47AM
  • cuecat mirror by bahamat (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @01:24PM
  • Re:another thought by Nullsmack (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:41PM
  • Re:legality by 1alpha7 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @11:40AM
  • Boycott by devious507 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:15AM
  • Re:Take Them At Their Word by devious507 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:39AM
  • Re:Discrepancy between license and advertising by devious507 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:53AM
  • Cease and desist by Elvis Maximus (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:17AM
  • Re:Can we write CueCat? by grammar nazi (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:32AM
  • Re:Can we write CueCat? by grammar nazi (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:19AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by mariab (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @09:08AM
  • Deforestation by mirko (Score:2) Sunday September 03 2000, @08:52PM
  • Re:legality by Fist Prost (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:50AM
  • Re:I've learned something from DeCSS by Fist Prost (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:43AM
  • by zlite (199781) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:28AM (#811785)
    The cease and desist letter says they're protecting :Cue's "intellectual property". I fail to see how writing an independent program that simply makes use of the output of the :Cue scanner in any way infringes on the company's intellectual property.

    Reverse engineering of file formats are the closest example and my understanding is that courts have rules that this is fine.

    I don't see how they have a leg to stand on. Hack on...
  • Distribute! by adipocere (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:58AM
  • Re:Cease and Desist? why? by adipocere (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:55AM
  • Anybody else got them? by yakfacts (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:43AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by phayes (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:20AM
  • Re:Here is a idea by stopbits (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:32AM
  • Cease and Desist (Score:4)

    by abe ferlman (205607) <bgtrio&yahoo,com> on Friday September 01 2000, @04:30AM (#811791) Homepage Journal
    This article and all responses to it violate the intellectual property rights of :CueCat, inc. and RadioShuck Inc. Cease and Desist reading it immediately. We will prosecute all individuals who view this contraband information to the fullest extent of the law and then some.

    Sincerely,
    Iaal T. Corporate, Esq.

  • Re:They should do an end-run around the user by david duncan scott (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:30AM
  • Re:Slashdot Friends!!! by david duncan scott (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @06:49AM
  • Re:They should do an end-run around the user by david duncan scott (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:17AM
  • Re:You missed the important part by CowbertPrime (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:09PM
  • by commandant (208059) on Friday September 01 2000, @05:40AM (#811796)

    When I walked into my local Radio Shack, the guy didn't even know what a CueCat was. I had to say, "You know, the barcode reader?" He acknowledged and handed me the thing. He took my name and address (I still can't figure out why I didn't use fake info). He never said anything about a license to use it. He also never said, on the phone or in person, that it was on loan from DigitalConvergence.com. He said they were "giving" it to me, for free.

    After opening the package I plugged the thing into my machine, and glanced at the card they give you. I've just now read the entire card, and it says nothing about a license agreement, or even a mandatory look at crq.com. It only says to go to crq.com to get a unique activation code.

    Unfortunately, in screw-you lawyer style, the back of the CD jacket says, in tiny print on the bottom, "Opening of this software constitutes acceptance of our License terms contained herein. Copies can also be found at www.digitalconvergence.com/ula.html. [...]" Although I don't recall a EULA in the package, it does direct you to online information. It also doesn't say installation constitutes acceptance, only opening the software. And that happened when you eagerly ripped open the plastic containing the device.

    Therefore, unfortunately, we are all bound by those license terms. I could imagine, if one took it all the way to the Supreme Court, one could claim that decoding the CueCat output is merely reinterpretation of public information (since the CueCat dumps its code into any text editor you choose, they aren't making an effort to conceal the code).

    If mine gets recalled, though, I won't give it back. The reason? I paid for it. That's right: when I was at Radio Shack, and before I could even see a hint of a license agreement in the package (the message was obstructed by the informational booklet), I gave away my name and address (it's even printed on the receipt they gave me), which is valuable marketing information. So Radio Shack (and potentially DigitalConvergence.com) can send me shit I don't want, and I have nothing to show for it? I don't think so. I deserve compensation for giving up my privacy.

    Maybe that's why I didn't use fake info.

    I do not belong in the spam.redirect.de domain.

  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by caver (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:37AM
  • And they would like your TV habits! by sconklin (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @07:14AM
  • Re:legality by SquidBoy (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:32AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by SquidBoy (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:29AM
  • Re:legality by jodo (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:51PM
  • Thanks everybody ! by Rosco P. Coltrane (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:45PM
  • Java code, too by Jeremy Traub (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @11:03PM
  • A Brave New EULA by skoda (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @07:59AM
  • just a front by bigsweatyballs (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @11:14AM
  • Ahhhhhhh but by AbbyNormal (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:31AM
  • Re:Ahhhhhhh but by AbbyNormal (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:19AM
  • Re:This is just stupid by update() (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:50AM
  • Re:This is just stupid by update() (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:50AM
  • This is just stupid by update() (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:35AM
  • Re:So, we have another case of the stupids by jsmaby (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:35AM
  • I'd like to applaud this by SecurityGuy (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @05:54AM
  • Evolution of the EULA by Sir_Dill (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:54AM
  • Cheaper beer and groceries by Hairy_Potter (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:54AM
  • Re:Cheaper beer and groceries by Hairy_Potter (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:14AM
  • Freeeeee!!! by TrenchWarrior (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:47AM
  • Re:What nations does the order apply to? by The Mgt (Score:1) Tuesday September 05 2000, @08:02AM
  • GET RICH QUICK! by SUWAIN (Score:1) Saturday September 02 2000, @01:46AM
  • Re:Another way to protest .... by SUWAIN (Score:1) Saturday September 02 2000, @01:55AM
  • Re:Barcode Scanner? by puck71 (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:36AM
  • Re:What "intellectual property"? by ikjos (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @02:05PM
  • phantom license agreements by James Fraser (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:30PM
  • Another Solution by Sun_Tzu99 (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @09:56AM
  • by quantum bit (225091) on Friday September 01 2000, @04:39AM (#811824) Journal
    1. Convert the DeCSS source code to groups of three-number octects (000-255) representing the ASCII characters of the source.

    2. For additional fun, before step one, invert the bits of the source code. Claim this is a copyright protection device and nobody can attempt to circumvent it under the DMCA.

    3. Use a barcode printer to print out the resulting sequence of numbers in barcode format.

    4. Give to a friend.

    5. Friend scans barcodes with free scanner and Linux driver.

    6. Friend converts source code back into original form, saves it in a file whose name starts with Metallica and ends with .mp3.

    7. Publish the resulting file on Napster, Gnutella, Freenet, etc...

    8. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

    .sig: Not all /. users with high UIDs are trolls dammit!
  • Re:The way to complain to CueCat by hungerfan (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:28AM
  • Re:Talk to the CEO by hungerfan (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @10:30AM
  • Re:Freeeeee!!! by hungerfan (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @11:00AM
  • HW eulas by ConversantShogun (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @04:48AM
  • Re:FOUND IT! by ConversantShogun (Score:2) Friday September 01 2000, @05:03AM
  • Is this illegal? by deuist (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:36AM
  • Re:Everybody Needs One! by wuffie (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @03:42PM
  • Too little too late. by Orclover (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:36AM
  • Re:Tee Shirt ??? by Orclover (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:56AM
  • Re:Do they even have a case? by DrLazer (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:58AM
  • These IP claims just get sillier and sillier... by gopherdata (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:20AM
  • Re:The most effective action may be... by mendepie (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @08:17AM
  • Re:Read the fine print; they never "gave" it to yo by Daeng (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @02:51PM
  • Re:You don't seem to get it. by Daeng (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @05:07PM
  • Re:Even Worse: Digital Convergence Spies on You! by XsinTRK (Score:1) Friday September 01 2000, @04:48PM
  • Re:You missed the important part by kernelbabe (Score:1) Saturday September 02 2000, @06:09AM
  • Re:How many languages can people do DecodeCat in? by zakezuke (Score:1) Saturday September 02 2000, @12:22PM
  • Re:These guys are funded by Microsoft by zakezuke (Score:1) Sunday September 03 2000, @03:35PM
  • Cue, the property University of Birmingham by zakezuke (Score:1) Sunday September 03 2000, @03:45PM
  • Re:My Response by zakezuke (Score:1) Monday September 04 2000, @09:16AM
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