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Blackboard Campus IDs: Security Thru Cease & Desist

Posted by jamie on Mon Apr 14, 2003 02:14 PM
from the cease-and-desist dept.
On Saturday night, Virgil and Acidus, two young security researchers, were scheduled to give a talk at Interz0ne II on security flaws they'd found in a popular ID card system for universities. It's run by Blackboard, formerly by AT&T, and you may know it as OneCard, CampusWide, or BuzzCard. On Saturday, instead of the talk, attendees got to hear an Interz0ne official read the Cease and Desist letter sent by corporate lawyers. The DMCA, among other federal laws including the Economic Espionage Act, were given as the reasons for shutting down the talk (but -- update -- see the P.P.S below). I spoke with Virgil this morning.

Virgil was there two years ago when Dmitri Sklyarov was arrested and led away in handcuffs at Def Con 9. He's not in handcuffs now, but in speaking to me, he had to stop and think about everything he said, and every third answer was "I really shouldn't talk about that."

The DMCA is largely to thank for that. Section 1201 states that no one "shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work," and that no one "shall... offer to the public... any technology" to do so. Blackboard Inc., whose card system is called the Blackboard Transaction System and known to end users under various names, uses a network of card readers and a central server, and they communicate over RS-485 and Internet Protocol -- using, or so they apparently claim, measures that effectively control access.

For the record, none of what I learned about the Blackboard technology was from him or Acidus after the restraining order was sent. I spoke to other people, who have not been served with a restraining order. Google has a less enlightening mirror of the slide titles from this weekend's PowerPoint presentation and a more enlightening mirror of Acidus's "CampusWide FAQ" from last July. And, most enlightening of all, this mirror has an updated version with details on what they figured out how to do and what their talk was going to be about (click "CampusWide" for the text description, the PowerPoint slides, and Acidus's timeline of the last year).

At many schools, Blackboard's system is the ID: you swipe your card for your meal plan at the cafeteria, to get into your dorm, maybe even to get your final exam.

A swipe at a vending machine will get you a soda -- a money transaction from your campus debit account. When you use a swipe to do laundry and make copies, money has to be involved. Blackboard even notes that they can set up a merchant network on- and off-campus: "a cashless, safe, and secure way to transact on and around campus while offering parents the assurance that their funds will be spent within a university-approved network." (Emphasis added. Maybe readers who go to schools that use such a system can expand on how that system is used.)

The kicker, of course, is that this network is not very secure, or at least Blackboard doesn't think it's as secure as... well, as lawyers. One anonymous Slashdot submitter wrote that: "The authentication system is so weak that [Virgil and Acidus] have been able to create a drop in replacement for the CampusWide network debit card readers used on coke machines on campus."

Virgil couldn't provide me any details about what he had learned about the system. Based on the mirrors, it looks like a man-in-the-middle replay attack -- which is a pretty simple attack, repeating messages sniffed over the RS-485 protocol, or even over IP -- can have effects like convincing a Coke machine to dispense free product. Or, it's claimed, the attacker can create a temporary card, with no name attached, and free money in its account. Hmmmmm.

Or, more ominously, someone else's identification might be sniffed, and then replayed from a security terminal. If a thief gained entrance to a building by sending the message "open the door, my name is John Doe," the real John Doe might be sorely inconvenienced the next morning.

So, if you're a student at a school that uses Blackboard, do you feel more secure now that the DMCA has tried to stop you from learning about its security flaws?

If you're a parent putting money into a Blackboard-based debit account, do you feel more confident of its safety now that this information is ostensibly hidden?

This card system has been installed on many campuses and its roots go back almost twenty years. My guess is that replacing the card-reading hardware would be necessary to improve the security of these devices. Obviously, Blackboard would be hard-pressed to replace thousands of hardware devices at all its locations, even if they'd started in late 2001 when Acidus claims he called to tell them of the flaws he'd found (and "was blown off").

So, assuming that's not possible -- is the DMCA a viable tool to ensure security?

P.S. Virgil tells me that he has a good lawyer. They are scheduled to argue on Thursday that the restraining order not be made permanent. Slashdot will keep you apprised of what happens in our Slashback stories... stay tuned.

P.P.S. Update: 04/15 02:30 GMT by J : Now online are the restraining order, which just lists the six things that Acidus and Virgil are not to do, and the more detailed Complaint. Now that these are available, as Declan McCullagh points out, it turns out the DMCA was only in the lawyers' threatening letter and not considered as part of the Complaint itself. I'm not sure why it would be included in the letter -- some of the language of the Georgia Computer Systems Protection Act is similar, and who knows, Section 1201 might be mentioned later on, as this case progresses. Maybe the lawyers are just keeping their options open. Meanwhile, I love this part of the Complaint:

"Mr. Hoffman openly acknowledges on his website that 'I am a hacker.' His website then defends the process of hacking. See Exhibit B."

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[+] Your Rights Online: Blackboard Patenting Educational Groupware 223 comments
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[+] Your Rights Online: US Patent Office To Re-Examine Blackboard Patent 115 comments
Mr_5tein writes "Groklaw is reporting that the US Patent and Trademark Office has just ordered a re-examination of the e-learning patent owned by Blackboard Inc, thanks to a filing by the Software Freedom Law Center. SFLC's press release states, 'The Patent Office found that prior art cited in SFLC's request raises "a substantial new question of patentability" regarding all 44 claims of Blackboard's patent...' The SFLC explains that though such re-examinations may take a couple of years to complete, approximately '70% of re-examinations are successful in having a patent narrowed or completely revoked.'"
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  • Remember, Citizens (Score:5, Funny)

    by RLiegh (247921) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:17PM (#5730091)
    (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday July 29, @04:31PM)
    This in NO WAY implies we live in a police state.
    • No, it doesn't. by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @02:19PM
      • Re:No, it doesn't. by gamgee5273 (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:33PM
      • Re:No, it doesn't. by gricholson75 (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:35PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:No, it doesn't. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by nehumanuscrede (624750) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:36PM (#5730276)
        A corporation who distributes flawed merchandise or software has every right to tell me to be quiet. I also have every right to a functional secure product that they claim to be pawing off on you. Perhaps hitting the corporation with a false advertisement lawsuit ( we sell a secure product, we swear ) in return would wake them up. ( Doubtful ) With our sorry ass congress/senate passing these bills as fast as they can, it's probably our only recourse until we boot the entire lawmaking body out of office and get someone with some sense.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:No, it doesn't. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by nehumanuscrede (624750) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:46PM (#5730377)
          Think of America as the 'politically correct' police state. While the jackbooted-gestapo isn't kicking the door down and beating you. . . (yet) . . . they are instead getting law degrees, dressing in nice suits and suing you. It's much more profitable. It ultimately achieves the same goal. You tend to keep your opinions / comments to yourself.
          [ Parent ]
        • Re:No, it doesn't. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by mickwd (196449) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:22PM (#5730707)
          The trouble is, how can you win a false advertising law suit it no-one is prepared to do the research to find the product is insecure ?

          Interesting, isn't it, in these days of terrorism paranoia, that laws like this ARE going to result in worse security ? Well worse security for the USA, relative to every other country in the world that doesn't (yet) have these sort of laws.
          [ Parent ]
          • Financing by uberdave (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @04:59PM
            • Re:Financing by benb (Score:2) Tuesday April 15 2003, @07:47AM
          • Re:No, it doesn't. (Score:5, Insightful)

            by berzerke (319205) on Monday April 14 2003, @05:12PM (#5731605)
            (http://www.spotswood-computer.net/)

            ...laws like this ARE going to result in worse security...



            My thoughts exactly (for quite some time now). The true criminals won't care it's illegal. They will get and USE the information anyway, leaving someone else to take the blame. (Honest officer, it wasn't me who swiped the card to break into the dorm and rob people.) And since the system is <sarcasm> so secure</sarcasm>, who's going to believe the victim? Of course, defending yourself without access to the information that shows how insecure the system really is is going to be a <sarcasm>cake walk</sarcasm>.



            It's been my experience (and looking at history, I'm not alone) that trying to ignore a problem (bring in the lawyers!) only makes it worse and more expensive. Sadly, common sense seems so uncommon nowadays.

            [ Parent ]
          • Re:No, it doesn't. by NuShrike (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @08:45PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:No, it doesn't. (Score:5, Insightful)

          " A corporation who distributes flawed merchandise or software has every right to tell me to be quiet."

          but that doesn't mean you should have to respect that wish.
          How many things only get better because someone talks to the press?
          [ Parent ]
        • Re:No, it doesn't. by jodo (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @04:36PM
        • Re:No, it doesn't. by stefanb (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @05:27PM
        • Let's remember why we have disclosure by IshanCaspian (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @06:46PM
        • Re:No, it doesn't. by ScottKin (Score:1) Tuesday April 15 2003, @01:10PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:No, it doesn't. by redheaded_stepchild (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:52PM
      • Re:No, it doesn't. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 14 2003, @03:39PM (#5730842)
        Hello. Stupid. The corporation is using the law to prevent speech. The law is stopping someone from speaking. A prior restraint, stupid. This is the hallmark of a police state -- laws being used to silence the voice of individuals. Armed thugs will beat the shit out of him if he speaks -- they will attempt to kidnap him, imprison him, and extort money from him for this sin in the guise of arrest, detention, and fines by the police and court system. You have no idea what you are talking about, AC.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:No, it doesn't. by raju1kabir (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @04:37PM
      • Re:No, it doesn't. by rknop (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @05:21PM
      • Re:No, it doesn't. by skillet-thief (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @05:22PM
      • Re:No, it doesn't. by Mac Degger (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @06:07PM
      • you don't know police states (Score:5, Insightful)

        by g4dget (579145) on Monday April 14 2003, @06:25PM (#5732100)
        If we lived in a police state, armed thugs would not tell you, [...]They'd just beat the living crap out of you and then go home,

        Maybe that's how police states work in your native, ignorant, Hollywood view of the world. In real life, police states don't usually bother with beating people up--it's way too much effort--and it's not necessary. They control people through implicit and subtle threats to their liberty, livelihood, and privileges, as well as similar threats to their families. They only resort to force when people absolutely don't comply--but so does law enforcement everywhere.

        You don't agree with the party line? Sorry, you or your kids can't go to college. You don't return from your trip abroad? Well, to compensate the state for your misdeeds, your home will be confiscated; too bad about your family. In some areas of US law enforcement, it's getting frighteningly close to that (drug seizures, computer seizures, etc.).

        Police states aren't anarchies. They operate orderly and according to laws, they just happen to be laws that limit freedoms excessively. And it's very easy to move from the rule of law in a free society to the rule of law in a police state.

        [ Parent ]
      • Re:No, it doesn't. by be-fan (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @10:01PM
      • Re:No, it doesn't. by Hanno (Score:3) Tuesday April 15 2003, @04:36AM
      • Re:No, it doesn't. by kubrick (Score:3) Tuesday April 15 2003, @09:36AM
      • Re:No, it doesn't. by edbarrett (Score:2) Thursday April 17 2003, @04:10PM
      • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Remember, Citizens by Lord Ender (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @04:34PM
    • Re:Remember, Citizens, NEW INFORMATION by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @11:07PM
    • 4 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • by Marx_Mrvelous (532372) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:17PM (#5730093)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    I wish there were a way to accidentally leak the exacty details overseas. There, it would be very difficult to get shut down, and every college using this system would have to deal with it.

    While this may be an inconvenience to students, they can get by without buying coke with a swipe of a card for a while.
  • Again? by insecuritiez (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:18PM
  • Duh... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by c0dedude (587568) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:18PM (#5730099)
    Well, if you aren't even able to TALK about security flaws *Cough*First Amendment*Cough* they'll never get fixed. The DMCA again makes the net less secure instead of more.
    • *cough* Clueless *cough* by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:21PM
    • Re:Duh... by adamruck (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:22PM
      • Re:Duh... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by BattleTroll (561035) <battletroll2002@yahoo.com> on Monday April 14 2003, @02:26PM (#5730174)
        Ummm, no. If Neo-nazis can parade down the street, hate-mongers can publish their diatribes, crosses can be burnt, and flags defecated on then by God the first amendment should protect academic discussion on security holes and their implications. Teaching someone how to pick a lock is not the same as breaking into Ft. Knox.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Duh... (Score:4, Informative)

          by harvardian (140312) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:16PM (#5730650)
          Actually, the US Supreme Court recently ruled that cross burning is, in fact, illegal [suntimes.com].

          But the supporting opinions agreed that it should be illegal because it is a form of intimidation, and I don't think anybody believes that a presentation on the security flaws of a popular transaction system is intimidating...just dangerous to a certain corporation.

          [ Parent ]
          • Re:Duh... (Score:4, Informative)

            by ngrier (142494) on Monday April 14 2003, @04:14PM (#5731162)
            Actually, IIRC, the article doesn't quite state the facts clearly. The supreme court was split in that it supported one case and returned the other to the lower court. It ruled that the two men who got drunk and burned a cross on their [black] neighbor's lawn did so for the purposes of intimidation and that this was not a protected form a speech. (see for example their recent ruling on the illegality of the anti-abortion websites posting "wanted" ads of abortion doctors.).

            They did, however, uphold the right of the KKK to burn the large 30' cross as a form of protected speech (i.e. political, without an immediate threat of harm or intimidation). It was for this reason that Thomas dissented - his comments indicated that the history of cross-burning is such that there is never a time when cross-burning is not meant to intimidate.

            So to return to the question at hand, the Supreme Court has clearly, multiple times, made a distinction between types of speech and that some are protected and others aren't. Regardless of the first amendment, you can't make threats on the life of the president (no matter how much of a ditz he is). Similarly, you can't give away state secrets. No matter how inane or ludicrous the DMCA is, there is a long precedent for restricting certain types of speech. (So the question of its constitutionality is not one that is easily answered.)
            [ Parent ]
            • Re:Duh... by TGK (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @08:23PM
          • Re:Duh... by Fastolfe (Score:1) Tuesday April 15 2003, @09:17AM
        • Re:Duh... by JimDabell (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @03:35PM
          • Re:Duh... by TC (WC) (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @04:20PM
        • Re:Duh... (Score:4, Insightful)

          by akmed (33761) on Monday April 14 2003, @04:51PM (#5731456)
          (http://slashdot.org/)
          I'm a law student, but this is NOT legal advice.

          Assuming that Blackboard's security has a flaw, then the first amendment protects your right to say Blackboard's security system has a flaw in it.

          The first amendment might protect your ability to talk about the flaw in general terms.

          The first amendment does not protect your ability to instruct people about the precise details of the flaw and how to exploit it.

          The difference? Saying there's a flaw is beneficial because then the company knows and can fix it. Saying how the flaw works and how to exploit it facilitates criminal activity.

          Tell a kid that the kid who made fun of him is an idiot and someday he'll die lonely and maybe you'll have made him feel better.

          Tell the kid that if he takes the gun on the table, points it at that other kid who made fun of him, and pulls the trigger that the other kid won't make fun of him anymore and you'll land yourself in jail.

          In both instances you're talking about speech. See the difference?

          And btw, picking a lock almost inherently involves tools. Possession of tools for picking a lock is a crime in most places if you're not a locksmith. Go ahead and ask a lawyer.
          [ Parent ]
          • Re:Duh... by Genom (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @06:06PM
            • Re:Duh... by akmed (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @06:39PM
              • Re:Duh... by lar3ry (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @10:30PM
            • Re:Duh... by Fastolfe (Score:1) Tuesday April 15 2003, @09:19AM
          • Re:Duh... by Samrobb (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @11:21PM
            • Re:Duh... by akmed (Score:2) Tuesday April 15 2003, @08:12AM
              • Re:Duh... by Samrobb (Score:2) Tuesday April 15 2003, @11:24AM
          • Re:Duh... by julesh (Score:2) Tuesday April 15 2003, @07:16AM
          • Possession by alexo (Score:1) Wednesday April 16 2003, @03:27PM
        • Re:Duh... by BrynM (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @06:17PM
        • Re:Duh... by st0rmcold (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:02PM
        • Re:Duh... by cpeterso (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @04:06PM
        • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Duh... by Jeremi (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:46PM
      • Re:Duh... by c0dedude (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @05:13PM
      • Proof is important by sjames (Score:2) Tuesday April 15 2003, @11:24AM
    • Re:Lawyer's Trick by st0rmcold (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:53PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • silly response (Score:4, Insightful)

    by adamruck (638131) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:18PM (#5730101)
    oh good, possible security hole found in card readers

    solution1) talk about it and develop a fix
    solution2) send cease and decist letters to people who could possibly fix the issue, and rely on security through obscurity

    solution2 seems kinda silly to me..
    • Re:silly response by evilviper (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @02:24PM
    • ThoughtCrime!!!! by jsimon12 (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @02:28PM
    • Re:silly response (Score:5, Insightful)

      by st0rmshad0w (412661) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:35PM (#5730273)
      Hmmm, they had better go with option 1.

      Given solution 2, how about this scenario. While C&D is in force and no one is implementing a fix, all users of the systems still remain vulnerable. Someone else figures out how to fake the ID's, uses said fake to gain access to student's dormroom, and commits serious crime against student. Student's parents sue college, college FREAKS and looks to point a finger, original objects of C&D step forward with evidence that security company was informed of the problem and offered help with a solution. College and student's parents sue security company into non-existence.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:silly response by AnotherBlackHat (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @02:59PM
  • well (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Meeble (633260) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:20PM (#5730124)
    (Last Journal: Friday January 17 2003, @06:21PM)
    Pretty soon if will even be illegal to have this article posted since it relates to a story which relates to a specific technology that relates to reverse engineering of a product which relates etc etc - because some people don't know enough tech to be passing laws on it.

    If a default remote control, garage door opener, et al provided the features the consumers :really: wanted there would be no need for me to go buy a universal remote. It's not the consumer's fault the original creator's product doesn't meet people's needs

    I don't know if anyone else saw the >article [securityfocus.com] [securityfocus.com] about the student doing steganography work for his PhD - he's moving all his work offshore because he resides in Michigan and the super-dmca may make 'his whole academic career illegal' - depressing.
    • Re:well (Score:5, Interesting)

      by PCM2 (4486) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:52PM (#5730432)
      (http://neilmcallister.com/)
      Pretty soon if will even be illegal to have this article posted since it relates to a story which relates to a specific technology that relates to reverse engineering of a product which relates etc etc - because some people don't know enough tech to be passing laws on it.
      Well, once again, this is a case where somebody got hit with a cease and desist. No government action, repeat, no government action was involved with this story whatsoever. A lawyer wrote a letter to a guy, the guy got scared, and chose to curb his own behavior rather than potentially fight the issue in court. (Only potentially, mind you, because the lawyers/company might not have even chosen to pursue the issue, or to involve the DMCA in their case.)

      Yes, the possibility with getting slapped with a huge lawsuit and/or criminal charges is pretty scary. Somewhat scarier, on the other hand, is a society where people comply with the demands of other people even though those other people aren't really authorities at all.

      Police states are pretty bad. Worse, IMHO, is a people governed by the Will of f*cking Landru...

      [ Parent ]
  • Another BS Govt Move (Score:5, Funny)

    by DSL-Admin (597132) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:21PM (#5730134)
    Way to secure the flaw, lets just not talk about the flaws and arrest anyone who says otherwise.

    The sky is Blue!!

    DMCA Official " You must cease to call the sky blue, as it is in violation of what we have said before that the sky is infact not there"
  • Ostrich tactics (Score:5, Funny)

    by Cutriss (262920) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:22PM (#5730143)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    So, assuming that's not possible -- is the DMCA a viable tool to ensure security?

    Of course not...the DMCA is a tool that allows companies to safely keep their heads in the sand. Here on Planet Earth, wrapping a towel around your head doesn't *really* make the Ravenous Bug-blatter Beast of Traal go away.
  • Responsibility by LamerX (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:24PM
  • I know a little about this... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Probius (130206) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:24PM (#5730152)
    (http://www.probius.com/)
    Our school uses blackboard, and last year the machines were shut down for a long time because students used methods to get free stuff out of the snack machines. And I'm not talking cracking a case or making a fake card either. It was really simple too, like swiping really fast after the transaction, if I remember right, and you could get a second item for free. Kinda scary.
  • obviously not (Score:5, Informative)

    by ih8apple (607271) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:24PM (#5730160)
    To answer the question "is the DMCA a viable tool to ensure security?"

    Here's [bbc.co.uk] an article from the BBC [bbc.co.uk].

    and here's a good presentation [treachery.net] from toorcon.

    and lastly, this [itworld.com] is a good article from ITWorld.
  • Freedom of the press? by Tiger Smile (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:25PM
  • Money (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nehumanuscrede (624750) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:25PM (#5730172)
    Cease and decist letters get written when someone threatens anothers money making schemes. To fix the problem costs money, to scare individual X into keeping their info to themselves is much cheaper.
    • Re:Money by bheerssen (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:45PM
  • What about this analogy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 14 2003, @02:27PM (#5730183)
    Say that a random person on the street finds a crack in a banks wall that allows intruders to get in, tack the cash, and run away. Should the person start holding seminars about how there's such a vulnerability, or should the person go tell the bank so it can fix it?

    Initially, the later case seems like the thing to do. But what if the bank ignores you? Should someone be allowed to convey information about a problem with a system if the system controllers refuse to fix it? I'd still think not - it'd be one thing to state that there is a vulnerability, and that in good conscience could not state what the vulnerability is, and quite another thing to go explaining the vulnerability to everyone else.

    Just my 2 cents, and as always, there's probably more to the story.

    F-bacher
    • Re:What about this analogy (Score:5, Informative)

      by Frobnicator (565869) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:39PM (#5730307)
      (http://www.xmission.com/~bryanw | Last Journal: Thursday August 28 2003, @07:56PM)
      or should the person go tell the bank so it can fix it?
      They DID try to tell the company, and were "blown off".
      But what if the bank ignores you? Should someone be allowed to convey information about a problem with a system if the system controllers refuse to fix it? I'd still think not - it'd be one thing to state that there is a vulnerability, and that in good conscience could not state what the vulnerability is, and quite another thing to go explaining the vulnerability to everyone else.
      This is something compuer security has had to deal with for quite some time. The normal ethical guidelines are to first contact the vendor and attempt to work with them to find a solution, and release the information once the vulnerability is corrected. If they either ignore it or fail to correct the problem in a reasonable time frame, the consensus is to take the problem to the security experts and users of the security system generally. This is based on the theory that criminals may already have such knowledge, and therefore the users need to know in order to protect themselves.

      Hope that helps with your question.

      [ Parent ]
    • I actually had something like this happen once. I went to a drive-up ATM at a bank I once used, and the machine was literally unlocked - there was a sort of swing-door arrangement where the whole ATM would open on a hinge sort of like some switch stacks do, and it was broken open. I decided not to stick my card in the machine and instead drove away to a payphone and called the bank.

      Amazingly, the people on the other end gave me attitude when I called to tell them that their ATM was broken open - the attitude switched between "it's not my problem" and "you must have done it." At no time did I believe that they were actually going to do anything about it.

      Two months later, when I was back in that town, I went to the same ATM, and the lock was still jimmied - it was closed, but obviously broken so that it would be a matter of prying with a screwdriver to open it again. I guess a couple of thousand bucks in cash and whatever private details can be gleaned from endorsed checks and deposit slips are unimportant to bancs of, um America.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:What about this analogy by BHearsum (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:50PM
    • Re:What about this analogy by anagama (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:14PM
    • Re:What about this analogy by AWhistler (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:30PM
    • Re:What about this analogy by prowley (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:34PM
    • Good idea, but flawed by cgenman (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:42PM
    • Corrected analogy by ATMAvatar (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:47PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:What about this analogy by bbqBrain (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:59PM
    • Re:What about this analogy by 91degrees (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @05:19PM
    • 5 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • good for students, not for administration by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:28PM
  • Is this SLAPP? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dacarr (562277) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:29PM (#5730199)
    (http://www.northarc.com/~ke6isf | Last Journal: Tuesday November 23 2004, @01:32AM)
    Considering the nature of the security flaws and that they are now exposed, can this legal action against Virgil be challenged under SLAPP clauses?
  • Companies hurting themselves (Score:5, Insightful)

    You know a C&D letter may stop people from disclosing exploits, but will not stop people from disclosing that their are exploits. That's enough for lots of poor, enterprising college students.

    A much better plan would of been to let these guys give their talk, to hire them, fix the problems, and them make a bundle in upgrades to existing customers. Come on, if some of these installations are 20 years old we're not talking much more then maintenance revenue. On the other hand system upgrades, especially when demanded by parents, can net a pretty penny. The colleges could have fund drives, hit up alumni societies, all the normal ways to get money when something unexpected walks through the door.

    Instead the company gets to look like a fool that knows there are security flaws, aren't fixing them and instead are wasting money on laywers, get getting bad press.

    Oh well, I guess there is no such thing as bad press. And that companies would rather think about prestige short term then a better product long term, even if the better product will get them more money.

    =Blue(23)

  • "Power Point" is a trade mark, not a thing by t_allardyce (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:30PM
  • it's over (Score:5, Interesting)

    by HBI (604924) <pelander.eyemud@com> on Monday April 14 2003, @02:31PM (#5730221)
    (http://www.eyemud.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday August 02, @11:28AM)
    Time to stop being a geek. I'm getting my pencils and paper back out, doing RPGs that way, and selling off my 7 or 8 computers.

    I can see the writing on the wall just as easily as anyone else. The joy that I got out of these marvelous toys just isn't worth it anymore. It used to be liberating, now it's just torturous. I can think of dozens of ways to get thrown in prison just by playing around with my system at night after work. Tinkering and exploring are forbidden. I'd rather be an insurance guy or something similarly boring then spending part of my life in a 4x6 cell, or even living in fear of same.

    Just proof once again that anytime government gets involved with anything, it sucks all the fun out of it. All in the name of equity and greater corporate profits.
    • Re:it's over by HisMother (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @02:49PM
      • Re:it's over by Qzukk (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @03:09PM
        • Re:it's over by Qzukk (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:57PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:it's over by Dielectric (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:53PM
    • Re:it's over by dubl-u (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @03:03PM
      • Re:it's over by HBI (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:18PM
        • Re:it's over by Daniel Serodio (Score:1) Wednesday April 16 2003, @08:30AM
    • Awww.... by lysium (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:21PM
      • Re:Awww.... by HBI (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:30PM
    • Re:it's over by AyaJulia (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @09:31PM
    • Re:OT by HBI (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @05:44PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Is this the most correct channel? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sabinm (447146) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:31PM (#5730230)
    (http://cincyboys.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Wednesday December 11 2002, @02:57PM)
    Surely Acidus and his colleagues informed the Universities about this before they went public with this information. That is of course the most effective way to get the system to change. . . Imagine inviting the Dean of Purchasing and Procurement to a Coke and a Apple pie on campus and using a facsimile of his id and account to pay for it. Or even more fun - - getting a sweet new laptop at the bookstore with a hyper-inflated account balance. Most certainly then Blackboard would think about upgrading their machines. Announcing that you are going to circumvent their digitally encrypted system in public, no less, simply gave Blackboard a way to facilitate their illegitimate hardware and polices and making it legitimate under the cover of an unjust law.

    As my good old Uncle Scrooge always said: Work Smarrrrrterrrr not harrrrrderrrrr
    • Re:Is this the most correct channel? by philovivero (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:58PM
    • Re:Is this the most correct channel? by FortKnox (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @02:58PM
    • Re:Is this the most correct channel? by OverCode@work (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:34PM
    • Tried that, went to jail. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by SysKoll (48967) on Monday April 14 2003, @05:33PM (#5731762)
      Actually, someone tried that already. He ended up in jail.

      In 1997, after four years of research, a French cryptographer, Serge Humpich, found a flaw in the widely used French smart card, which requires owners to type a PIN on a payment terminal for all credit card and ATM transactions. He found that 1.the PIN was verified by the chip on the card, 2. some terminals didn't really check what chip they were talking to, and 3. If the chip told the terminal "yes, the PIN is right", the terminal would blindly accept the confirmation and allow the transaction. Such a card is called a "yes-card"

      Humpich contacted the Carte Bleue consortium, an association of 200 banks managing the French smart cards, and told them about the flaw. They refused to believe him. So he made a yes-card out of spare parts and went to a Parisian metro station. There, he bought a few metro tickets and send them, along with the payment receipt, to the Carte Bleue people. They immediately contacted the police.

      Humpich was arrested in September 1999 and jailed for several months. In 2000, he was given a suspended 10-month jail sentence and a $2600 fine. All his equipment and documentation was confiscated. Now he has a criminal indictment that bars him from a number of jobs.

      Of course, the French and US laws are different. But if anything, I suspect a US court will actually be harsher, especially now that the DMCA has been used in several precedents. Heck, the DMCA makes it almost mandatory to jail you if you figure out a way to program your VCR without reading the obviously encrypted documentation!

      So I really don't think it's a good idea to show the problem exists. Blackboard knows, the people who selected them as a supplier know, and if you show them that they're effectively slobs, they'll crush you to cover their asses.

      -- SysKoll
      [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Freedom? by AmbyVoc (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:32PM
  • Stupid. Typical. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jasenj1 (575309) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:32PM (#5730236)
    If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

    If hacking is outlawed (and talking about it), only outlaws will know how to hack.

    So who do you get to sue if someone makes a dupe of your ID card and raids your campus debit account, or breaks into your dorm room? The school? The hacker? The company that sold the school the lame ID system they claim is secure but is not?

    I would think the schools would like to know why sodas, meals, etc. are disappearing from their supplies. Hmmm.... This Coke machine is empty, but only 5 Cokes were recorded to be bought from it. Hmmm...

    This is the worst kind of security through obscurity.

    - Jasen.
  • Thanks for the LINKS Jamie! by Real World Stuff (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:32PM
  • Oh yeah, this helps. by solios (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:35PM
  • Could someone please not be a wuss about this? by litewoheat (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:36PM
  • Hacking by any other name by lemongrass (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:41PM
  • How can I... by jeffkjo1 (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:43PM
  • my experience with it... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by JimBobJoe (2758) <james@mo y e r.com> on Monday April 14 2003, @02:44PM (#5730353)
    After I left the Ohio State dorms in 1998 (I'm still a student) the university started to put card readers on the dorm entrances (up to that time either you had a key that opened both your dorm room and the main entrance, or you had two separate keys if you lived in a really big dorm.)

    It does offer some advantages, for instance, all people could be allowed into the dorms at some parts of the day, but other times of the day only people who live in that dorm could gain entry.

    Though there are some interesting caveats

    *the first one, which I didn't really know well at the time, is the fact that making a copy of the card is far easier than making a copy of the key. Remagnetizing magnetic stripes is not the hardest thing in the world.

    *the campuswide system runs off of ethernet to the AT&T9000 computer which administers everything. If a particular door gets disconnected with the central computer, it's default setting is to pretend like everything is normal, and let everyone in, and it has a cache of swipes which it would then transmit back to the central computer when the connection was restored. That seems like a sensible kludge given the circumstances, given a network failure it would be more sensible to allow all in as opposed to all out, especially at a dorm. (Higher security places would have their door failure mode set to allow no one.) On the other hand, as a security concept, it just bugged me. (this is explained in the powerpoint presentations.)

    *my big concern at the time was the tracking and auditing abilities, and it still is. the key system had no tracking and auditing. The swipe system allowed the university to keep a record of when students come into the building (and implicitly, when they go.) I pointed out that Ohio law prohibited a government institution from collecting information which were not authorized by law, nor required to achieve a particular purpose...and that the system need not perform the tracking, it only needed to perform the authorization.

    The response I got was that the system was not designed with a zero tracking/auditing setting, it needed to perform tracking and auditing as part of its authentication mechanism. I pointed out that I can't help that the university bought a dumbass product, and I threatened to sue them, but I was young, and I threatened to sue everyone. :-)

    I got a letter from the university lawyers saying "While we ourselves certainly hope never to need the archived data -- and, fortunately, rarely do -- it can be of unquestionable value in
    investigating incidents in the residence halls. It is for this very reason that similar systems are in use at numerous colleges and universities
    around the country."

    I've however pointed out that any idiot who was gonna do something in the dorms would do what everyone else does, and that is follow someone who swiped before you, and not swipe themselves.

    I still hope to work on this issue at some point. :-)
  • Felton v. RIAA again? by www.sorehands.com (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:44PM
  • I have a OneCard (Score:5, Informative)

    by Feztaa (633745) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:45PM (#5730363)
    (http://exolucere.ca/)
    I'm a student at the University of Alberta [ualberta.ca], and I have one of these OneCards.

    There are various machines around that let you deposit money onto your OneCard, but there is no "university-approved network" of stores that accept the OneCard as payment.

    The OneCard is primarily used for borrowing books from the library, and for operating the photocopiers/printers on campus, and there is exactly one vending machine on campus that allows you to pay with your OneCard.

    As for people living in residence who have meal plans (like me), there's a separate card for that, provided by Aramark [aramark.com]. To get into our dorms, we have keys. Laundry is coin-operated. The OneCard has absolutely nothing to do with the on-campus residences.

    For most finals and midterms, we're required to show our onecards and/or driver's licenses as photo ID, but the OneCards aren't swiped through a card reader or anything, it's just photo ID, nothing more.

    There are restricted areas on campus that you can access by swiping your OneCard and punching in a secret code, but as a first year undergrad, I don't have access to any of those places so I can't say what it's like (though for most of the places that aren't top-secret nuclear research facilities, it's almost trivially easy to get in by walking in when somebody else walks out -- we're friendly here in Canada, generally we hold the door open for people we don't know).

    So, if you're a student at a school that uses Blackboard, do you feel more secure now that the DMCA has tried to stop you from learning about its security flaws?

    Gee, I dunno. This is Canada, there is no DMCA here (as far as I know, anyway). Hopefully some Canadian security researcher will hear about this, and continue the research here...
  • How dangerous will this get? by immortal (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:45PM
  • Amend the DMCA for intention? by Mark_Uplanguage (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:45PM
  • DMCA=Gun Control=Thought Control (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Scot Seese (137975) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:45PM (#5730367)
    So.

    Instead of fixing the exploit in their keycard system, the company in question finds it easier to have their lawyers drop a house on the students.

    Doesn't "Security through Obscurity" create an environment where persons with malicious intent are free to exercise it?

    The students discovering the security hole = The Good Guys. The knowledge they posses equal a Munition (or, a firearm.) They were not planning to use their knowledge maliciously.

    Essentially the DMCA has turned knowledge into a weapon to be regulated through the legal system. Just be careful what you know, because speaking of it publicly is becoming the 21st century equivalent of pulling a gun out of your pocket at the mall to discuss it's function with another gun enthusiast.

    Of course, we all know the gun paradox. Seriously. Increasingly orwellian gun laws !=less crime. Criminals will always find weapons. On the electronic mean streats, crackers & hackers will always find exploits, but unlike the Good Guys, the Bad Guys won't go to a symposium to divulge the PROBLEM, embarassing the company into FIXING IT. Instead, the Bad Guys will EXPLOIT the FUCK OUT OF IT.

    I'm not a philosopher, psychologist, ethicist or sociologist by profession, but perhaps the DMCA needs to be re-evaluated by a panel consisting of a few. Right now it seems to favor only the government and very, very large corporations. Oh, and it makes learning a criminal act.

    Do you have a permit for your mind?

    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • On Revealing Security Flaws by goldspider (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:46PM
  • A gagged presentation. by CPgrower (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:46PM
  • Effectively Controls... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:46PM
  • Just like banning security advisories... by Kjella (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:51PM
  • "Effective" security by whoever57 (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:52PM
  • False advertising? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BlueFall (141123) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:54PM (#5730457)
    IANAL, but could someone sue the company for false advertising? If they say their product is safe and secure, but you feel it isn't and you are a user, then shouldn't your be able to bring a case against them? At that point, you have to present evidence for your claim and (assuming the court records aren't sealed) the exploit becomes public record.

  • by Animats (122034) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:55PM (#5730471)
    (http://www.animats.com)
    The Economic Espionage Act of 1996 [cybercrime.gov] is worth reading. It's overly broad, and its definition of trade secrets is broader than that of the Uniform Trade Secrets Act.

    Trade secrets used to be frowned upon by the law. Patents were legally preferable, so that when the patent expired, the knowledge went into the public domain. A trade secret could be lost easily; any publication by anybody erased trade secret status. All trade secret law really did was to put some teeth into confidentiality requirements for employees. It didn't affect outsiders.

    All that has changed in the last decade. Between the Economic Espionage Act, the DMCA, and several court rulings, trade secrets now look more like property rights.

  • So, assuming that's not possible -- is the DMCA a viable tool to ensure security?

    The DMCA isn't about secruity--it's about copyright. Read the DMCA [copyright.gov], also known as Chapter 12 of Title 17, USC, and decide for yourself.

    IMO, the law should either be moved to a general security law, or it shouldn't be interpreted to cover anything except the aiding and abeiting of real anti-copyright infringment sale aid--that is, unless a device is intended to protect a document that's transmitted / broadcast, the DMCA shouldn't touch it.

    Then again, these are new positions for me--reply and you might change me again.
  • Not Surprised by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:56PM
  • DMCA how? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Sloppy (14984) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:57PM (#5730483)
    (http://www.biglumber.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday November 27, @12:44PM)
    Anyone know what the copyrighted content that is protected by this technological measure, could possibly be?

    If it's something within the school, then the makers of the system wouldn't really have a DMCA complaint against researchers; the school (user of the blackboard product) would. (Just as MPAA, not DVDCCA, are the ones who had DMCA complaints when knowledge of bypassing CSS got out. It's the copyright holder of content who gets to use DMCA, not the inventor of a protection mechanism.)

    Assuming the blackboard lawyers actually see a way to use DMCA and aren't just trying to intimidate (hell of an assumption), then the copyrighed content must be some artistic expression within the Blackboard system itself, rather than something the system is intended to protect.

    If the copyrighted expression turns out to just be the serial number on a card, or something like that, then that would be very (*cough*) interesting.

  • Wait a second ... by slagdogg (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:57PM
  • Patent your exploits (Score:5, Funny)

    by scrotch (605605) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:01PM (#5730517)
    The only sane thing to do is to patent your exploits before you announce them. :)

    Then you have precedence for publishing them, or you just point to the online patent info.

    As a bonus, you can sue the companies that fix the holes you're supporting because they've broken that "shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work" line. After all, your exploit controls access, right? Opening a door is controlling access as much as locking it is.

  • all too common by EZmagz (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:02PM
  • by mykepredko (40154) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:03PM (#5730536)
    (http://www.myke.com/)
    Reading through the C&D letter, I have to wonder who approved it from Blackboard's perspective and if anybody technical thought through what may be the result of it is.

    There sounds like there is enough information in the letter so that somebody that knows what a 75176 is (I would disagree with the assertions in the paper about RS-485's obscurity), can program a PIC or an 8051 and can use an oscilloscope can reproduce the work done by Messrs. Griffith and Hoffman. Along with this it sounds like the readers are connected to standard cabling via standard connectors.

    So, the result I would expect from this letter is, 1) it will be put on the Internet for all to read, 2) boxes throughout the different colleges and universities that use the system will be pulled out of walls and vending machines with many of them stolen or vandalized to see what's actually inside them, next 3) The protocol and hardware will be distributed on a variety of web sites (probably ending with .ru or .iq) and finally 4) Blackboard's reps get innundated with phone calls, emails and letters complaining that their system is not secure.

    This begs the question on what Blackboard should have done. (next reply).

    myke
  • Slack-ass bastards! (Score:3, Funny)

    by foxtrot (14140) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:05PM (#5730544)
    This past week, one of the first comments to be modded up as funny is someone claiming to be the Iraqi information minister.

    Now, they could have said something like, "There are no holes in the BuzzCard system, and we have repelled the elitist satan dogs who have attempted to break its security!" and it would have finally been funny!

    -JDF
  • 1v1 slashdot shibboleths. by mumblestheclown (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:06PM
  • Something my brother told me... by mindaktiviti (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:07PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • When knowing about holes is a crime.... by paiute (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:07PM
  • College students (Score:3, Funny)

    by BobRooney (602821) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:10PM (#5730597)
    (http://elliser.dyndns.org:3000/)
    There are 2 things geeks in college have in abundance: free time and the want to break things. Now that every geek with a heartbeat and a B0x0rz knows there IS a flaw in this card system then they can go ahead and track it down on their own. Free access to EE labs is a beautiful thing. Let's wait and see how long it takes before they are ripped off to the tune of a couple million dollars.
  • My univ. uses this system by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:11PM
  • How can I tell if I'm vulnerable? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Jester99 (23135) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:14PM (#5730634)
    (http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/ak/)
    I go to Cornell University. I have one ID card that swipes *everything*. Access to dorm hall. Attendance count at mandatory lectures. Meal plan. Laundry account. Snack/soda machines. Credit card.

    Some people have been asking "what 'University approved network'" in other posts. At least here, we've got an account tied to our cards called "city bucks" that lets us spend a declining balance at local off-campus restaurants, and I think a couple supermarkets too. While City Bucks is Cornell-specific, I'm sure other universities have similar things.

    I think there are other accounts too, but I forget them. The point is, I'd like to know if I should complain to someone in administration.

    Anyway, we have a server with the Blackboard Courseware website software on it, but that doesn't mean we've got their card system too.. but how can I tell if we do use their card swiping system? (There isn't a logo on my card that would identify it as any particular brand.)
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Yeah by nebby (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:16PM
    • Re:Yeah by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @04:35PM
      • Re:Yeah by nebby (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @05:04PM
  • Buzzcards (Score:3, Informative)

    We use Buzzcards here at Georgia Tech. It's been the experience of me and most people I know that the cards are only used for laundry, dining hall meals, and admission to athletic events and facilities. This is the first I've heard of any flaws in the reader system, but to be honest I don't think it affects people too much. There doesn't seem to be many places for students to put money on a Buzzcard, and when someone does, it's usually just enough to do wash their clothes this week and maybe get some snacks from the food court. I just don't see it as being a big issue.

    That being said, I don't think that threatening these folks with the DMCA and acting like the situation doesn't exist is the best possible way to make things safer. Hopefully situations like this can help get part or all of that legislation thrown out.
    • Re:Buzzcards by DarkAce911 (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @04:16PM
    • Re:Buzzcards by ageitgey (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @05:31PM
  • Cease && Decist != Outrage by badfish2 (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:17PM
  • Crowbars? by Asmodean (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:20PM
  • Re:I say publish all the details overseas by jlk_71 (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:23PM
  • What should have Blackboard done? by mykepredko (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:26PM
  • Lawyer's info by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:28PM
  • by Newer Guy (520108) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:28PM (#5730755)
    If I recall, the RIAA/MPAA cartel tried the same shit on Dr. Felton didn't they? Then they dropped it when he cancelled his talk and sued them. That went to court and the judge threw it out claiming "No harm done". It seems to me that I see a pattern happening here. Big companies are abusing the DMCA by threatening to sue, which clearly abuses the Educatuional exception that Congress put into the DMCA. Then, once the talk is cancelled, they say: "OOPS! we goofed...we were never planning to sue you!" THEN the court agrees with them. The problem is this is a variant of the "shoot, ready, aim" philosophy. This stuff they're pulling is a dangerous incursion into free speech....but then again, free speech means NOTHING in the Post 911 Bush dictatorship!
  • Why did they desist? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MoneyT (548795) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:29PM (#5730759)
    (Last Journal: Tuesday April 20 2004, @05:02PM)
    Seriously. If these people felt so strongly about the flaws in this system to hold a public seminar on it, why did they backdown when they got a letter? They should have held the seminar anyways. They might go to jail, but think of what they could accomplish.

    1) Get the information they wanted presented to the public.

    2) Get media attention

    3) Bring the insanity of the DMCA to the courts.
  • how very zen by louzerr (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:30PM
  • free printing (Score:5, Interesting)

    by strider3700 (109874) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:32PM (#5730780)
    We had the Onecard system at my school. Best hack we found was with the printing system. Insert a card with $30 on it in the machine toy print for $0.10 say this is my print job, wait for it to read amount on card. take out the card and put in a card with $0 on it. hit yes to print. $29.90 will be wrote to the card. Everyone I knew had $100 on the card in no time once we "borrowed" a profs card. We also got to print at half price by taking a copy of his card.

    People also spent time sniffing the one card network, but as far as I know no one had found anything interesting yet. this was 4 years ago, so I'd assume the entire thing is solved by now.
  • Good Lawyers? by PSL (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:33PM
  • Reminds me of an episode in "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!": Adventures of a Curious Character. Richard Feynman pointed out problems with security of file cabinets containing secret documents at Los Alamos. The "solution" to the problem? Easy! Keep Feynman away from the cabinets!
  • google cache of Acidus' yanked pages by emcron (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:37PM
  • Looking for a DMCA test case... by urulokion (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:38PM
  • My response... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:40PM
  • DMCA by tigerdream (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:40PM
  • embarassment & consequences (Score:5, Insightful)

    by xeno (2667) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:44PM (#5730877)
    As a US citizen, I'm depressed (I should be outraged) at this sad state of affairs. However in-your-face this particular presentation was to be, the stated goal was to expose the flaws of the system through hand-on research & controlled experimentation. Research. It was NOT to distribute hacking tools for actual implementation to facilitate illegal or illicit purposes. But ballsy kids in an academic environment who want to improve the technology and processes that surround them? They're stymied by corporate protecionism ensconsed in federal law. That's sad. It's wrong, immoral, and ultimately ineffectual. But the real tragedy is that it depresses the level of creativity in academia and creates fear for those that think too hard.

    As a security professional, the fact that any cheeseball company can successfully hide their shoddy product behind a federal law is an embarassment. It induces even more cognitive dissonance when I work with federal and state goverment security staff who are well aware of good security principles, and then think about laws such as the DMCA which are diametrically opposed to known-good principles of improving security technology and processes.

    It's a lose-lose proposition: News of an exploit always gets out, and is propogated fastest within the community which has little fear of the DMCA. But invocation of the DMCA causes relatively-innocent people -- those that were willing to stand up and state their names -- to tremble and retreat. As I said: it's wrong, immoral, and ultimately ineffectual. I spend my days educating people about the dangers of security by obscurity, and exposing the risks associated with snake-oil solutions such as Blackboard's "secure" transactions. I'm doing my part to educate as many people as I can, but with Grand Moff Ashcroft at the legal helm of the country (and with US federal/foreign policy changed to match the prosecutorial principles of "pre-crime"), I'm afraid it's like spitting into the Mojave.

    The first time that some predator clones the card of a victim (or a patsy) in order to gain access to a building and rape/murder someone, I wonder... Will the appropriate law enforcement be able to effectively investigate/prosecute such a crime if the computing research community is prohibited from supporting them? Would Blackboard be content to sit on known security flaws and let a patsy get convicted? Again: wrong, immoral, and ultimately ineffectual. It ought to be illegal to *withhold* security flaws, at least from those who depend on/are subject to them. Feh.

    J
    • Re:embarassment & consequences by dentar (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:52PM
    • Re:embarassment & consequences by Tuna_Shooter (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @04:21PM
    • DMCA vs Common Sense (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MisterMook (634297) on Monday April 14 2003, @04:24PM (#5731259)
      (http://unstoppableforce.blogspot.com/)
      The first time someone uses the exploit to commit a rape or murder, the kneejerk reaction of the corportation will be to point at the students who knew the exploit and told officials about it as the scapegoats.

      "They told us that we didn't leave our door locked, since naturally it was intrusive to check our door to see if it was locked (even though it affected the security of the people telling us) we told the students to scram and forbid them to tell anyone that our doors were open. Unfortunately yesterday we had a sad epsiode on campus where someone entered through our unlocked doors and commited a heinous crime, sadly the conclusion to be derived from this is definite - those infiltrators that went checking our doors must have relayed the information to their despicable accomplices. The University declines any assumption of guilt or failure of any kind. Thank you."

      Face it, people suck and they don't ever stop sucking. The world is run by imbeciles to protect imbeciles, and the intelligent are their favorite food group unless they are creating more ways to create morons or joining the pack in their cannabilistic orgy of idiocy.
      [ Parent ]
  • Any country want to be next tech center? by Odinson (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:44PM
  • Restraining Order (Score:4, Informative)

    by bellings (137948) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:47PM (#5730909)
    I must be missing something. Has a lawyer sent them a cease and desist letter? Or has a restraining order been granted against them by a court?

    Because, all the links point to a cease and desist letter, which are as cheap as lawsuits in the United States. Any schmoe can send a cease and desist letter. Hell, I could send CmdrTaco a letter claming that the space aliens he keeps in his laundry hamper are interfering with the workings of my tin-foil reflector beanie. You certainly don't have to do what the cease and desist letter tells you to do, any more than I have to follow instructions from the little voices in my head. Sometimes the little voices in my head give me good practical advice, like "change your socks." But you would be a fool to follow the advice of either the voices in my head or a random lawyer's cease and desist letter without question.

    But, I understand a restraining order as an entirely different thing. A restraining is handed out by a court, and unless you're fond of the inside of jail cells you would be well advised to follow it to the letter.

    So, did these people actually get a restraining order against them? Or is this just another badly misleading slashdot article?
  • 2600 Magazine Article by Eberlin (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:49PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Value? by FuzzyDaddy (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:53PM
  • 2600 Magazine (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MarvinMouse (323641) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:58PM (#5731012)
    (Last Journal: Saturday September 04 2004, @10:35AM)
    There was an article in 2600 about 4 issues ago that had complete details on this system I believe, and how to hack into it.

    If I can remember which issue it was I'll post it here. If anyone else remembers, feel free to remind me. I remember though it basically showed how with no effort the system can be cracked.

    ** To avoid DMCA lawsuits, etc. I did not write this article or am involved with it's creation whatsoever. **
  • Is product testing now illegal? by ConfusedVorlon (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @03:59PM
  • Suppose I'm a salesman for a rival company by pussyco (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @04:07PM
  • What did they use to sniff the packets? by SmackCrackandPot (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @04:28PM
  • I worked on access/alarm systems at a U. by Unknown Poltroon (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @04:34PM
  • Spend your meal card cash on Beer! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cookie_cutter (533841) on Monday April 14 2003, @04:46PM (#5731412)
    Maybe readers who go to schools that use such a system can expand on how that system is used.

    At my school, the recently mentioned [slashdot.org] McMaster University [mcmaster.ca], our residence meal plan could be used at local restaurants which had a deal with the Univerisity, like East Side Marios, Pizza Hut, and equivalent places.

    Thing was, while they were mainly restaurants, some of these restaurants had bars in them, and we found early on that the system did not discriminate between what one ordered from these places.

    So basically, one could use mommy and daddy's meal plan money. I think they eliminated this loophole since my first year, but it was good(by which I mean very very bad) while it lasted :)

  • 18 USC 1029 by Nethead (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @04:49PM
  • Blackboard Follies (Score:3, Informative)

    by theoddball (665938) <theoddballNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday April 14 2003, @05:02PM (#5731524)
    I go to a school in the northeast that relies heavily on Blackboard. (I also work computing support here, so I know what a pain it is on the backend, but I digress.)

    Oddly enough...I had a discussion about this with a CS prof a while back. Turns out he and another tenured prof figured out how to make all the vending machines (which are on the card) spit out free stuff by using a card with purposely malformed data.

    This worked so well that the machines would dispense free stuff until somebody came along and unplugged/restarted them...

    But anyway, if Blackboard wants to, two highly respected, published CS profs could be prosecuted under the DMCA.

    Another problem popped up a couple years ago that never became common knowledge: if your account balance was between 0 and $0.05, you could buy as much as you wanted, and your balance would never change. I'm not sure if that was a Blackboard bug or something else we did here.

    Another one of those through-the-grapevine stories that I suspect is true--the host "machines", whatever they are, for the locks operated by these cards communicate via TCP/IP with a central server. Last year a CS student figured this out and started sending a variety of packets at one of the hosts, crashed it, and summarily locked 200 students out of their dorm.

    Ah, Blackboard, how I love thee.

    And I've just committed multiple crimes under the DMCA, I believe...
  • ID Card "Security" at UCLA (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gnarly (133072) on Monday April 14 2003, @05:17PM (#5731657)
    (http://colossalerror.com/)
    I was a member of the UCLA Grad. student gov't (GSA) at a time when the Admin. sent out a mass email to all students in blocks of about 200 students at a time which included in the CC section of the email, the email address and Registration ID numbers of the recipient and 200 other students. By collating a few dozen such emails I and other GSA members were able to obtain ID #'s for over 3,000 unique students.

    After we went public, the admin. apologized, but said this was not a security risk because each student's account was protected by not only that 9 digit (now public) number but also a 4 digit numerical password. This didn't make me feel very secure. The ID + passwd combination was used to add/drop classes, find out grades, administer financial aid, etc.

    The cards themselves were made by AT and T; you could put money on them over the web using your credit card, then buy food, etc.

  • DMCA by CarlDenny (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @05:23PM
  • What about Verifone? by strongmantim (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @05:24PM
  • DMCA is worthless by iamhassi (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @05:27PM
  • by jdeitch (12598) on Monday April 14 2003, @05:29PM (#5731734)
    (http://www.litz.org)
    Most of the card reader systems used in arcades (a-la Dave/Busters, Gattitown, et al) use a RS-485 network as well.

    When these units need to be repaired, they are plugged into a "dumb server". This server basically takes ANY card input, and sends back an "OK" to the reader to allow it to start up a game.

    The only critical knowledge needed is the location/site ID code the reader is setup for, and (obviously) the format that particular manufacturer/provider uses for their network.

    I can't imagine it would be difficult at all to do the same thing for a coke machine, or any other device, on a CampusWide Network.

    - litz
  • Big Brother by Fuzzums (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @05:38PM
  • Contact the Lawyer. (Score:3, Informative)

    by mikedaisey (413058) on Monday April 14 2003, @05:40PM (#5731811)
    (http://mikedaisey.com/)

    here's the contact info for the lawyer who sent the cease and desist letter.

    http://www.sablaw.com/profiles/bio.asp?ID=000032 25 1170
  • vacation by BigBir3d (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @06:02PM
  • "Off the record..." by po8 (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @06:10PM
  • Homework? by BrynM (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @06:11PM
  • Torx screws.. by gweihir (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @06:22PM
  • This was in my fortune today (Score:4, Insightful)

    by oblom (105) on Monday April 14 2003, @06:37PM (#5732201)
    "A commercial, and in some respects a social, doubt has been started within the
    last year or two, whether or not it is right to discuss so openly the security
    or insecurity of locks. Many well-meaning persons suppose that the discus-
    sion respecting the means for baffling the supposed safety of locks offers a
    premium for dishonesty, by showing others how to be dishonest. This is a fal-
    lacy. Rogues are very keen in their profession, and already know much more
    than we can teach them respecting their several kinds of roguery. Rogues knew
    a good deal about lockpicking long before locksmiths discussed it among them-
    selves, as they have lately done. If a lock -- let it have been made in what-
    ever country, or by whatever maker -- is not so inviolable as it has hitherto
    been deemed to be, surely it is in the interest of *honest* persons to know
    this fact, because the *dishonest* are tolerably certain to be the first to
    apply the knowledge practically; and the spread of knowledge is necessary to
    give fair play to those who might suffer by ignorance. It cannot be too ear-
    nestly urged, that an acquaintance with real facts will, in the end, be better
    for all parties."

    -- Charles Tomlinson's Rudimentary Treatise on the Construction of Locks,
    published around 1850
  • These guys did it wrong by duren686 (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @06:53PM
  • Bad Company by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @07:23PM
  • Bound to happen by MrLint (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @08:08PM
  • Kinda related... by deke_2503 (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @08:58PM
  • This all great info by Archfeld (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @08:58PM
  • Free money. by krenskeoz (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @09:28PM
  • My campus. by 13Echo (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @09:32PM
  • A bunch of crooks by CAIMLAS (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @10:09PM
  • Like Feynman by suchire (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @10:18PM
  • eyewitness by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @10:50PM
  • Root cause analysis: Corporate Personhood by ChapterS (Score:1) Tuesday April 15 2003, @12:37AM
  • so the result of the dmca is.. by DZign (Score:1) Tuesday April 15 2003, @02:08AM
  • Sounds very dangerous to me by forgoil (Score:2) Tuesday April 15 2003, @03:04AM
  • You want to ratfuck Blackboard? by alizard (Score:2) Tuesday April 15 2003, @03:57AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • At My University... by CowboyBob500 (Score:2) Tuesday April 15 2003, @06:26AM
  • The DMCA does not outlaw hacking by Tom7 (Score:2) Tuesday April 15 2003, @01:27PM
  • Well, I sure feel more secure. by mauldus (Score:1) Wednesday April 16 2003, @12:44AM
  • Post weighs in by cheap (Score:1) Friday April 18 2003, @01:22PM
  • Re:God this world blows... (Score:5, Funny)

    by L. VeGas (580015) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:22PM (#5730137)
    (http://nedwolf.com/ | Last Journal: Friday September 30 2005, @01:10PM)
    God this world blows... why does the world have to suck so much? i mean it; any serious thoughts?

    Hey, don't blame me. I set you up in a nice garden, and you had to listen to that stupid snake.
    -----
    g0d
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:God this world blows... by Quixadhal (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:24PM
  • Re:God this world blows... by realdpk (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:24PM
  • Re:You Americans should have another civil war.. by hoggoth (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:32PM
  • by evilviper (135110) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:33PM (#5730246)
    (Last Journal: Thursday November 29, @09:35PM)
    If you look at the history of America, these problems get solved after a while. The reason you don't see people marching in the streets is because nobody's life depends on it. Matters of copyright and other such things may take years to be straightened out, but it happens, no death necessary.

    Just recently there have been proposals to amend the DMCA to add some public rights to the equation. They might go somewhere, they might not, but a stable democracy is dependant on changes NOT happening a breakneck speeds.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Another way to go about this? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Dyolf Knip (165446) on Monday April 14 2003, @02:34PM (#5730255)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    Obviously, Blackboard would be hard-pressed to replace thousands of hardware devices at all its locations, even if they'd started in late 2001 when Acidus claims he called to tell them of the flaws he'd found (and "was blown off").

    And you know very well that this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened.

    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Another way to go about this? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 14 2003, @02:36PM (#5730285)

    This is a snippet from Acidus' old website. It relates the timeline of events. I hope you enjoy.

    Sorry for posting AC but since this does come from Acidus' website ....

    Spring 2001 - I got interested in the Buzzcard network on Campus. Based on the AT&T logo, I went to the Internet and soon found out about the system. Lots of Web research done, and fieldwork on the connection between the device and the reader. Locked Cabinet with Multiplexes was opened and photo was taken of insides. Determined which wires to cross to make doors open, laundry machines get credited, etc.

    Summer 2001 - Continued exploring the system, called the company (now Blackboard), and interviewed Jim Resing.

    Fall 2001 - With Publishing of my Fortres article, increased last minute field research, and finalized my notes. Called Blackboard again to tell them all the flaws I found, was blown off.

    Spring 2002 - Wrote Article, and was published in Spring 2002 issue of 2600.

    6/2002 - Blackboard learned of my article. The Blackboard Usergroup tried to track me down; finally figuring out I went to Tech, saw my web page and was very upset. Concerns about how accurate my article was are posted by schools around the country to the list-serve. GT tells the list-serve that they are looking into it and they would reply again soon.

    GT Police asks to speak to me to determine if crime was committed. GT Police never file charges and indeed I am told there is no long an investigation. Buzzcard Office conducts internal audit of their systems. I go to Buzzcard office unsolicited to try and assist them in securing their system. They were not happy to see me. Office of Information Technology (OIT) on campus starts a test of the Buzzcard system to see if any of the attacks described in article are valid.

    Buzzcard office asks that I remove picture of inside of the locked cabinet from my web page (since its hosted on GT machines), which I did. Buzzcard center asks me to remove AT&T cached pages, which I refuse to do. (Its not theirs, if AT&T wants it down, they can ask me).

    Buzzcard office reluctant to talk with my about my article, since they don't want to confirm or deny how accurate I was. They do confirm the VTS could be hacked and money can be added to any accounts as I describe. However parts of my article (namely how to clone a card through the VTS), are, they claim incorrect. They ask if I would write a letter for the list-serve that explains what parts were incorrect. I agree as long as my letter will be unedited, and I get to also stress what parts are accurate to let colleges learn what they need to secure. Buzzcard office agrees but continues to cancel my meetings with them and not return phone calls. I am contacted by several colleges that are on the list-serve. They tell me that Tech has all along been posting that they have interviewed me, that my article is totally false. Tech uses such loaded statements as "As any experienced administrator should know, these security holes are not possible." These colleges are concerned Tech is not being truthful, and want to talk to me. I see that the Buzzcard center was stringing me along, and cease my attempts to contact them, or help them fix their pathetic security.

    OIT concludes their investigation, and confirm that everything in my article is correct, except about how to clone a card. Tech does not post these results to the list-serv.

    Dean of Students is involved, and is checking to see if, while no laws were broken, if I broke institute policy.

    [ Parent ]
  • Quite the reverse, actually. by dark-nl (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:36PM
  • Re:Try dotLRN - the Free and Open Source alternati by op00to (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:39PM
  • duh, they did by JiffyPop (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:42PM
  • Re:Is it just me by ManoMarks (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:43PM
  • Re:Try dotLRN - the Free and Open Source alternati by pythas (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:44PM
  • Uh, they claim that they *DID* contact Blackboard by rebill (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:44PM
  • Re:Try dotLRN - the Free and Open Source alternati by abureuben (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:46PM
  • Re:Try dotLRN - the Free and Open Source alternati by jdreed1024 (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:46PM
  • Re:Disgusting by Cali Thalen (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @02:48PM
    • Re:Disgusting by MalleusEBHC (Score:3) Monday April 14 2003, @03:36PM
      • Re:Disgusting by Cali Thalen (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @05:25PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Try dotLRN - the Free and Open Source alternati by mtnharo (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @02:52PM
  • Re:Try dotLRN - the Free and Open Source alternati by eMilkshake (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:02PM
  • Re:Try dotLRN - the Free and Open Source alternati by Traicovn (Score:2) Monday April 14 2003, @03:33PM
  • Re:God this world blows... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nanojath (265940) on Monday April 14 2003, @03:41PM (#5730858)
    (http://songsofdays.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Saturday August 06 2005, @08:59PM)
    Money and power: these two increasingly interchangeable qualities sum it up.


    Every year more money is spent on political campaigns in the USA. Money, in other words, is an essential requirement for securing election in the USA. The result? Well, look at the percentage of millionaires in Congress versus the general population (http://www.opensecrets.org/pubs/law_wp/wealth06.h tm) - hmm, quite a disparity. there. Now, do we WANT to be led by wealthy individuals? Can we expect them to represent us, as opposed to the tiny percentage of the general population they represent in terms of individual wealth? Of course not. We're trapped in a system where wealth can purchase attention, where wealth is a necessary precursor to a serious bid for winning political power. Anyone who denies this is either a witless dupe or is pushing one of the wealth driven political agendas (hint: there are two of them, brought to you by the letter R and the letter D).


    So, what can we expect the actions of power driven and facilitated by wealth to do? We can expect it to act on behalf of the wealthy and the systems that support them. So why should we experience any surprise when this is exactly what happens?


    The DMCA, for example, represents a simple transaction in this political economy. Intellectual property creates value. Value can be converted into money. The more control people are able to exert over intellectual property, the less it's potential value can be harnessed by its owners to create wealth. It may be true that further restriction of access to intellectual property may impair the absolute value that can be derived from a given pool intellectual property. To those who value intellectual property solely or primarily for the wealth it can generate, this is immaterial. So, the groups that represent the greatest centralized pools of wealth generated by intellectual property transact some of that wealth into political power (by supporting representatives directly and by buying the louder voice on capital hill through lobbyists, by controlling large parts of the media and keeping the issue a non-story in most conventional news outlets, etc.). So, the legislation is passed, and these are the consequences.


    In a rational economic system, the bottom line for a product like Blackboard's swipe cards would be how well they work and security would be part of that. But Blackboard isn't going to think that way - they are thinking about covering their asses and squeezing as much money out of their property as they can and security be damned.


    Without appropriate protections and controls in place to level the playing field where money is concerned, in a context where wealth and power are more and more easily interchanged, it's easy to see that the worse it gets the worse it will get, becuase the very systems we expect to protect us from the undue influence of wealth are themselves increasingly corrupted by wealth, and like a compromised immune system, the more those sytems are corrupted the more curruptible they become.


    As long as people accept the side a/side b black and white polarized view they are provided by the respective representatives of sides a and b - that is to say, as long as the primary beneficiaries of the current system are allowed to define the dialogue within their own terms - it will never get better. If you're still voting democrat cause you're scared of them war mongering, civil rights destroying, business loving loonies or republican because you're scared of those tax and spend, victim culture gun banning freaks, then you are manifestly part of the problem.

    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Give it to me by 91degrees (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @05:14PM
  • Re:The best way to help Acidus and Virgil by ccoder (Score:1) Monday April 14 2003, @11:05PM
  • Re:The real reason for this hack... by clichekiller (Score:1) Tuesday April 15 2003, @10:43AM
  • Re:WTAMU has one of those systems.... by vch976 (Score:1) Saturday April 19 2003, @11:20PM
  • 50 replies beneath your current threshold.
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