Sometimes, Microsoft is Right... 355
Now many many users of Slashdot have expressed their dislike for search services that order results based on cash, and many of us don't use IE, so the question comes up: why should we care about RealNames at all? Why does the failure of some poorly managed, ill-conceived company warrant any space on Slashdot? Alternative root servers make for a better story, no doubt. I'm the first to agree that RealNames deserves very little of your time, but the story of RealNames has recently taken a turn that is both annoying to me personally, and worrying to me as a long time participant in the open source scene.
Keith Teare, CEO of RealNames, has tried to make it seem like it was Microsoft's monopoly power that made RealNames go out of business. Lets review: RealNames had a deal with Microsoft to provide the RealNames service to MSN and Internet Explorer, for which they paid Microsoft a fee, and in return they got to derive revenue from selling the RealNames to companies, so basically Microsoft was likely RealNames' sole source of income. Keith and his coworkers were very happy to tie their horse to Microsoft while Microsoft was willing to pull them.
I don't need to explain to the Slashdot reader why RealNames was a poor idea. It is something you feel in your gut. I mean, in the end if you're going to accept the consensus reality that is the domain name system, are you going to stick with the somewhat broken NSI/ICANN/Pick-Your-Favorite-DNS company structure? Or are you going to go to a completly left field, poor, expensive excuse for NSI like RealNames? If you are a company trying to establish a web presence, do you choose the system that everyone has agreed on and publicize your url "http://www.bobstigerrentals.com" ? Or do you put: "RealName: Bob's Tiger Rentals" in your ads?
To illustrate further: Back in the day, I bought the linux.com domain name for the then-VA Research (Now VA Software) from Fred van Kempen (And there was much publicity, huzzah). Four or five months after doing this, I got a call from James Ash at RealNames trying to sell me the Linux RealName. This was not unusual, as I'd get any number of calls trying to sell me anything from containers full of stuffed penguins to whole companies (I was the wrong guy for those calls ...) What shocked me was the price he thought we'd pay. My mind remembers it as a horrible inverted Ron Popiel style sale, with none of the charm of Ron's products. How much would you pay to control the "Linux" RealName for four years? You'll be all over MSN and IE! $19.95? $29.95? $39.95? Try 1 million dollars.
It was a lot of money then, it's a lot of money now. It was a lot of money for any business. I told him we'd get back if we were interested. I didn't get back to him.
This is the innovation that Mr. Teare claims Microsoft squished, his right to overcharge for a dubious product. While Caveat Emptor certainly applied in the case of RealNames, his claim that Microsoft, somehow, has some duty to continue to provide the RealNames "service" to their browser client rings false. And that is the point of relating this bit of personal history.
I have little interest in engaging in schadenfreude over broken companies and laid off workers, but I do take issue with Keith Teare's attempt to jump on the anti-trust complainants bandwagon. If it is his hope that by crying foul on Microsoft now he can derive some sympathy or some other unknown gain, he'll have to look somewhere else than here on Slashdot, especially considering those that have a valid complaint against the software giant. Even considering recent developments I can't find any sympathy for him or his company, a company that, in my mind, belongs in the same class as LinuxONE (the California, not the Korean, company) and Digital Convergence.
Sorry for him, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Real Names sucks, 'cept for ALL of Asia (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why are you posting this? (Score:4, Insightful)
Um, yes. Slashot always has been (and I imagine it always will be) a site for Rob and friends to post stories they find interesting, review books and movies they think are worth reviewing, and just say shit they think is worth saying.
How on earth did you miss this, having a low 5 digit UIN?
And another thing.. No one was lecturing you. chrisd posted a story about a case where someone is attempting to victimize Microsoft, possibly to give a little spin to the standard Microsoft bashing. Just deal with it.
necessity is the mother of invention..... (Score:2, Insightful)
1) "Necessity is the mother of invention" - nobody NEEDED a little shortcut for their domain names.
2) Hardly anyone KNEW about the RealNames thing. The ones who knew were the most tech savvy, and they could probably have just made an aliases file to have "linux" go to linux.com or something....
3) it wasn't widely-spread. only a handful of keywords worked.
4) costed WAY TOO MUCH!
Re:Thank you, thank you! (Score:2, Insightful)
Go ahead, burn your mod points on me. I can take one for the team.
Live by the sword, die by the sword, or by MS (Score:5, Insightful)
They attempted to live by the Microsoft monopoly-sword, and now they die by the Microsoft monopoly-sword.
This is not, though, Microsoft necessarily being "right", so much as having failed in one Rule The World gambit, and rationally, cut its losses. That's not the same thing at all.
Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org) [sethf.com]
Realnames closure is hurting in asia.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, Google is a good idea in the west, but in the east, it's still an english-language tool. And it's not just google: realnames was using the address line, so that {asian glyphs} were substutuded with {european letters}.
Feature-Writing 101: Don't Insult the Readers (Score:4, Insightful)
Even lazy reporters aren't rarely so brazen. They try to make up for their lack of research/interest by inserting the word "clearly" at the beginning of a sentence. They think it absolves them of their responsibility to inform -- I call it "intellectual bullying."
I'm not picking on your writing or trolling about your opinion. I happen to agree with your assessment of RealNames, but if you can't present your argument without the bullying your argument doesn't deserve a forum. Slashdot editors, please consider this before accepting/writing features.
Bandwagon Jumping... (Score:2, Insightful)
My problem with the RealNames model is that there are litterally dozens of instances of some names. In the work that I do, the Acronym ATM has two distinct meanings. In the past five years I have run into two instances where SME did not stand for Subject Matter Expert.
Kraft has one meaning at the moment, however Craft has two distinct meanings (ability to shape things, and vehicle).
My own website's name can have two different meanings, and I am moving from one to another.
My feeling is that "RealNames" was in the auction dns buisness. They would sell "names" to the highest bidder, and the price could go up every time the name came up for renewal.
If that is a "viable" buisness model that they presented to their ventur capitalists, I can see why the money dried up. The VCs would wise up once they figured out the problem with the model.
To blame this on Microsoft is inviting the wrath of your customers. You were attempting to hold a proverbial gun to their heads.
This does not make Microsoft "right" any more than the village drunk blaming the village idiot for the village drunk's drinking, absolves the village idiot of any idiocy.
-Rusty
He is missing the whole point (Score:4, Insightful)
What everyone is missing is WHAT IF MICROSOFT STARTS DOING THE SAME THING IN HOUSE?. Than what will we say?.
I see this becoming an issue when someone will be typing " web browser" in the adress bar and Microsoft redirecting them to IE (or pick your own example where microsoft decides where you will end up)
Remember That ALL Default settings in Microsoft's Browser points to thier own in jouse web sites. )and to change that setting you have to be a little tech savvy.
poetic justice (Score:5, Insightful)
This should be a warning to any company that bets their business on being Microsoft's favorites rather than on innovating and competing independently. The lesson is actually quite independent of Microsoft: it is a fundamental mistake to build your business on a relationship with a single corporate partner. It just happens to be the case that in the software space, in some areas, there is no other partner around besides Microsoft.
I'm not convinced... remember Smart Tags? (Score:4, Insightful)
Remember Smart Tags [slashdot.org]? They were designed to give Microsoft the influence and revenue stream RealNames's technology had... but on a broader level. RealNames was confined to the location bar, while Smart Tags could modify the contents of a Web page. Microsoft has a history of getting close to companies that have a hot new idea just long to figure out what makes it tick . Then it incorporates the idea into its products and either acquires the partner (Vermeer, VXtreme, etc.) or drops it like a rock (Novell).
I believe Microsoft dropped RealNames because they sucked all the intellectual lifeblood it could from the company, not because it thought RealNames was a bad idea. Microsoft shelved (turned off) the Smart Tags feature under heavy criticism, but made a point of stating the feature may be released in a future version of IE.
Freudian slip? (Score:4, Insightful)
You said that in reference to Slashdot users. Perhaps you were meaning to say that in reference to Linux users? I find it hard to believe most Slashdotters, no matter how big of linux zealots they are, are using Mozilla or Opera. Many of us surf at work, and our only choice is IE.
Re:Missing the point (Score:4, Insightful)
What if you are looking to buy a used laptop?
What if you want information about getting Plan9 running on your thinkpad?
What if you want something *besides* the highest bidder.
The same holds true regardless of the language.
Your business was idiotic and helped nobody but you.
Remember on your blog where you said:
You didn't learn from the mistakes of all of the others who the same exact thing happened to.
Had you done the most cursory investigation of Microsoft you would have known this would happen.
When you said this though I had to laugh:
This is their SOP. If you respect that, then you are a fool.
Missed outside the USA? Doubtful... (Score:3, Insightful)
If RealNames was as useful outside the USA as its founder suggests, then the company would not have gone under as soon as Microsoft ended the deal.
If there was consumer demand for their services, RealNames could survive by distributing a browser plugin that hooks into the RealNames naming service. Something like the Google Toolbar would have worked perfectly. Those people who are apparently now sitting around crying because RealNames has gone out of business would instead be rushing to download the new plugin and it'd be business as usual.
But RealNames business plan wasn't based on being a useful service, it was based on being a part of Internet Explorer. Any business that bases its entire business model on a single contract with a single company is doomed. Any business that bases its entire business model on a contract with a company as well-known for looking out for number one as Microsoft is doubly doomed.
Charles Miller
Re:Thank you, thank you! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd offer a couple other reasons this story was worthy of attention.
First, RealNames has shown up on Slashdot before. And as chrisd points out in this article, RealNames is a posterchild for dubias business strategies that involve shoving the Internet in to one's own private monopoly. It wouldn't be suprising that the ultimate failure of this company wouldn't show up as a followup on Slashdot.
Secondly, the recent shenanigans has opened up dialog on a great subject: Microsoft isn't always in the wrong. If the CEO of RealNames had posted on Slashdot, he would have been labled a troll. Posters didn't fall for the bait. They noted RealNames was a Bad Idea and Microsoft, for once, wasn't doing anything worthy of ire. I saw the article subject not as "look what evil Microsoft has done now", but rather "look at who this guy is claiming as a scapegoat".
Lets not get carried away. Microsoft does plenty to attract criticism. But to be fair - Microsoft should be criticized only when their actions ARE appropriate. Microsoft doesn't deserve to be roasted when some scam artist wants to jump on the Microsoft-illegal-behavior-awareness bandwagon.
Re:Sorry for him, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
I believe, AOL's keyword is the AOL's own equivalent of RealNames' product. Why they should share cash with anyone for something they can (and do) provide on their own?
Sometimes M$ just takes out the middleman... (Score:2, Insightful)
RealNames just happened to fall in the category of "easier to build then buy." Which goes to show you, if you're gonna play at a table with M$, you'd better bring something they can't make themselves.
Re:On Alternates To DNS/ICANN (Score:2, Insightful)
Changing things the OSS way (Score:3, Insightful)
www.google.co.jp (Score:4, Insightful)
In fact, even www.google.com will automatically select the Japanese language if you're browsing from Japan (not sure if they're going off browser settings, IP address, or DNS).
All this talk about how the DNS desperately needs to be internationalised overlooks one vital fact: the DNS intentionally uses a limited character set. a-z, 0-9 and -, that's it. This allows hostnames to be used in all kinds of useful places without quoting (like URLs!). And it means they have a single, unambiguous, canonical representation.
If I can register ".com", shouldn't someone else be able to register "/.org"? How about "slashdot.org"? If not, why not?
DNS names are mnemonics, not keywords. Their purpose is to be easy to remember, not to provide a human-language description of the domain. If you want to search for something, please use a search engine. That's what they're there for. Any reasonable browser will let you search from the URL bar.
Re:Missing the point (Score:5, Insightful)
I am not familiar with this issue, but according to some of the posts under this article (and some excellent provided links) the issue is in work, and in fact some of the solutions are being implemented. Your solution may have provided a nice stop-gap now... but ultimately it was a monopoly in competition with the existing system. The entire Registrar game has been quickly moving away from single monopolies - with good reason. I'm affraid you're stuck in the past.
That's a pretty easy call. But what if I type in the word "peppermint"? Should it go to peppermint.com (Peppermint Productions)? How about www.peppermints.com (Penguin Mints)? Or maybe www.altoids.com (Altoids)? Suddenly its not so obvious. Unless, of course, your company refused to sell a generic keyword. But c'mon... we both know it went to the first/highest bidder. And frankly, that makes your point pretty moot.
Look around. There's been grumbling about this practice (even replacing 404's with a MS search result). But it seems that replacing one monopoly with another is little to get excited about. The entire practice stinks. RealNames was just an interchangable part of the problem.
You're a business guy. Your baby was slaughtered. A lamb that was shocked when the pack it ran with decided to stop for lunch. But if you think you can gain support in this forum by simply pointing your finger at Microsoft, you've gravely misunderstood Slashdot's collective culture. And you've missed the real root of the complaints against Microsoft.
What makes you think Sun et al isn't doing this? (Score:3, Insightful)
It should be the business of the goverment to deal with bad business practises, not a personal vendetta powered by other companies (splitting up windows is just a bad deal for the consumers, imagine paying for all the parts of your car and then assemble it yourself...), especially not via states.
It's a market economy, make products that won't sell and you loose, just like this "alternative" DNS scam (isn't AOL doing the exact some crap?). Give companies a good chance to succeed with good products instead of pointing fingers like kids in a sandbox.
Re:No, he's got a legitimate complaint (Score:4, Insightful)
That's perfectly within MS's rights, and isn't dishonest, mean-spirited, or anything else. If you make your money selling water you draw from my pump, you have little right to bitch if I decide to buy a box of dixie cups and stop renting the pump to you when your lease is up.
Re:On Alternates To DNS/ICANN (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Missing the point (Score:3, Insightful)
- KEITH TEARE, CEO Realnames (20% Microsoft Investment), June 2000
"Microsoft seems to be playing the role of the referee who decides whether any innovations succeed"
- KEITH TEARE, ex-CEO Realnames, after MS cancel contract.
Like lambs to the slaughter. You guys really didn't think that MS would let you build a viable business off their backs did you? Surely you understood that if that kind of ervice ever became successful they would tear it out from under you, and perfectly within their right as well. There's no law against not renewing a contract, as I am sure you found out when your customers deserted you.
Now onto the crucial point in all this: the internet has been designed to be an open system. All of the protocols that enable the core functionality are available for perusal by anyone. Consequently anyone can make software that works with these protocols. What you were trying to do was provide a new service (good), but build a monopoly out of it so that a few years down the line anyone who was getting a significant portion of their site traffic from RN would be forced to keep stumping up the no doubt increasing annual charges. Presumably you would charge other browser makers for the privilige of using this service too. This is bad.
And now you are making sour grapes about non-ascii character support. I assume that you are focusing on this because you have some support in asia whereas in the west you have none. Now on the basis of the open principles mentioned above, how do you think extended character addressing should be handled?
a) Open DNS-like system extended to support Unicode, and administered much like the current ststem.
b) Proprietary directory system that is closed, tied to one provider and which only works on one browser, and is dependent on the good will of the browser manufacturer (don't you owe them $25 Mil?).
I don't think I need to go on.
Re:Missing the point (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:On Alternates To DNS/ICANN (Score:4, Insightful)
I know I've seen plenty of ads with "AOL keyword: so-and-so" on TV, in magazines, and elsewhere. It seems to work for them okay.
NutscrapeSucks: Somebody else said it first, but DNS was not supposed to be a keyword system.
North America was supposed to be an extension of the United Kingdom. Slashdot was supposed to be a forum for rational discussion. We all know how that turned out. People adapt things to their own purposes.
Keywords and Search are the solution, and RealNames was not a bad idea. Lets put the stupid squatting and trademark junk in their database instead of our DNS system. Let them worry about the problem of how to find "Something" on the internet without resorting to "Something.com"
The current system isn't going anywhere anytime soon, like it or not. It's become too ingrained. Besides, keywords would have all the same problems. Eventually they'd all point you to porn. You were right about one thing, though. Search is a solution. With search engines (most notably, Google) actively updating and trying to help increase the relevance of your search results, as well as filtering the bulk of the junk, we are able to navigate the insanity of the internet quite a bit more efficiently. Hopefully they can remain on top of web spammers' techniques for a long time and save us all a lot of grief.
Re: Yes, but... (Score:2, Insightful)
Occasionally Microsoft comes up against something even more wrong.