For example, I would be labeled, in American terminology, as well left-of-center. But when I have conversations with self-styled Republicans or Libertarians, I find myself with far greater areas of agreement with them than disagreement.
This is a real issue....Americans have much more in common with each other than not, even if they fight forever on details like abortion. Politicians try to focus on our differences and emphasize them because that's how they get elected.
But it's important to realize that manipulation before you get too involved in hating the 'other' team.
How is abortion still an issue? Who are these people that lay awake at night worrying about whether someone will have an abortion?
In a historical way, I can see why it might have been agitating in pre-sexual revolution era (since it was probably always less about dead babies than keeping some kind of existential threat of pregnancy as a way to limit women's sexuality), but now? Do they think making abortion illegal now is going to actually change sexual behavior or have any kind of cultural impact?
It's used both on the right ("pro life") and on the left ("war on women") as a wedge issue.
>> Who are these people that lay awake at night worrying about whether someone will have an abortion?
Mostly "base" voters who are almost assuredly going to vote for either the right or left for other reasons, but who are cynically motivated to get off the couch by "pro life" or "war on women" advertisements full of BS. You can call people who buy into this stuff dumb, but
This and the original question Gladwell was answering reminded me again of a basic question I've had since youth: why a political dichotomy anyway? Why not three types of people, or just individual issues that we have independent opinions on? Haidt explains some of this from the perspective of personality traits, but I wonder if another part of the answer lies in the most common voting system in the US: plurality voting. That system has the feature of a 3rd-party-spoiler effect, where a 3rd politi
... But when Gladwell pointed out that Canadians aren't so obsessed with the liberal-conservative dichotomy I started to wonder.... Okay, I see that Canada also has a plurality voting system, so I'm likely full of... it. Eh, I'll post this anyway.:)
It's not just plurality voting that makes Canada different. There are also three major parties and a couple of minor ones so it gives people (and the media) more places to slot themselves thus avoiding the US vs. THEM mentality.
If there were more choices than the Democrats and the Republicans I'm guessing it would be more like Canada and less like a WWE smackdown.
Diclaimer: I'm a Canadian but an avid observer of American politics.
What I find interesting is politicians who pander to anti-abortion people by making grand gestures that the Supreme Court would strike down, while not working on writing laws that go right up to the Roe vs. Wade limits.
Why would you think that changing sexual behavior or cultural impact would be leading reasons why someone would oppose abortion? I don't even think most are religiously motivated. For many the issue is that they see it as ending the life of an actual or potential human being.
Why would you think that changing sexual behavior or cultural impact would be leading reasons why someone would oppose abortion? I don't even think most are religiously motivated. For many the issue is that they see it as ending the life of an actual or potential human being.
Because almost everyone who opposes abortion is almost never in favor of cheap, easy and widely available contraception, sex education that's not abstinence or welfare benefits to support all these seemingly valuable babies that MUST get born. I won't even include the handful who take it a step further and think that sexual assault, the health of the mother or severe birth defects aren't acceptable justifications, either.
What possible reason can you have for opposing abortion AND contraception AND sex educ
Why would anyone need to be an advocate for "cheap, easy and widely available contraception" when that is already the case? Are you claiming that that is not the current state of things? For all but the most destitute, access to contraception is a non-issue.
Yes actually! In that case the insurance plan covered some twenty type of contraceptives. Their objection was to paying for a couple of specific types. Those types are still available at the persons own cost. Neither are expensive enough that paying for them yourself should be an undue burden.
Under the ACA, everyone in the United States is required to have health insurance, and health insurance plans are required to provide female contraceptives for free (however, men usually must pay full cost for male contraception). Every women in the United States already has access to free birth control, unless either they are either not complying with the ACA mandate or their employer is one of the very few that have an exemption. Even without insurance, female contraception is around $4-$5 per 28 days a
Because there are people who will not vote for a pro-abortion candidate. To them it's a matter of life and death.
Similarly, there are people who will not vote for an anti-abortion candidate. To them it's also a matter of life and death.
Who are these people that lay awake at night worrying about whether someone will have an abortion?
The same people who lay awake at night worried about people dying of starvation and/or violence. Whether or not you agree with whether an unborn child is alive or not, in their worldview the unborn child is alive, thus it is murder.
Whether or not you are pro-life or pro-choice, I think understanding the pro-life worldview is not difficult. Its the same as whether or not you believe the earth is flat, or only 6,000 years old. Even if you don't believe it, you can at least intellectually comprehend that th
Dealing with the problem of pure staff accumulation,
all our researches ... point to an average increase of 5.75% per year.
-- C.N. Parkinson
Divisions (Score:4, Insightful)
For example, I would be labeled, in American terminology, as well left-of-center. But when I have conversations with self-styled Republicans or Libertarians, I find myself with far greater areas of agreement with them than disagreement.
This is a real issue....Americans have much more in common with each other than not, even if they fight forever on details like abortion. Politicians try to focus on our differences and emphasize them because that's how they get elected.
But it's important to realize that manipulation before you get too involved in hating the 'other' team.
Re:Divisions (Score:1)
How is abortion still an issue? Who are these people that lay awake at night worrying about whether someone will have an abortion?
In a historical way, I can see why it might have been agitating in pre-sexual revolution era (since it was probably always less about dead babies than keeping some kind of existential threat of pregnancy as a way to limit women's sexuality), but now? Do they think making abortion illegal now is going to actually change sexual behavior or have any kind of cultural impact?
Re: (Score:3)
>> How is abortion still an issue?
It's used both on the right ("pro life") and on the left ("war on women") as a wedge issue.
>> Who are these people that lay awake at night worrying about whether someone will have an abortion?
Mostly "base" voters who are almost assuredly going to vote for either the right or left for other reasons, but who are cynically motivated to get off the couch by "pro life" or "war on women" advertisements full of BS. You can call people who buy into this stuff dumb, but
Re: (Score:2)
Well said.
This and the original question Gladwell was answering reminded me again of a basic question I've had since youth: why a political dichotomy anyway? Why not three types of people, or just individual issues that we have independent opinions on? Haidt explains some of this from the perspective of personality traits, but I wonder if another part of the answer lies in the most common voting system in the US: plurality voting. That system has the feature of a 3rd-party-spoiler effect, where a 3rd politi
Re: (Score:2)
... But when Gladwell pointed out that Canadians aren't so obsessed with the liberal-conservative dichotomy I started to wonder. ... Okay, I see that Canada also has a plurality voting system, so I'm likely full of ... it. Eh, I'll post this anyway. :)
It's not just plurality voting that makes Canada different. There are also three major parties and a couple of minor ones so it gives people (and the media) more places to slot themselves thus avoiding the US vs. THEM mentality.
If there were more choices than the Democrats and the Republicans I'm guessing it would be more like Canada and less like a WWE smackdown.
Diclaimer: I'm a Canadian but an avid observer of American politics.
Re: (Score:2)
What I find interesting is politicians who pander to anti-abortion people by making grand gestures that the Supreme Court would strike down, while not working on writing laws that go right up to the Roe vs. Wade limits.
Re: (Score:3)
Why would you think that changing sexual behavior or cultural impact would be leading reasons why someone would oppose abortion? I don't even think most are religiously motivated. For many the issue is that they see it as ending the life of an actual or potential human being.
Re: (Score:3)
Why would you think that changing sexual behavior or cultural impact would be leading reasons why someone would oppose abortion? I don't even think most are religiously motivated. For many the issue is that they see it as ending the life of an actual or potential human being.
Because almost everyone who opposes abortion is almost never in favor of cheap, easy and widely available contraception, sex education that's not abstinence or welfare benefits to support all these seemingly valuable babies that MUST get born. I won't even include the handful who take it a step further and think that sexual assault, the health of the mother or severe birth defects aren't acceptable justifications, either.
What possible reason can you have for opposing abortion AND contraception AND sex educ
Re: (Score:3)
Why would anyone need to be an advocate for "cheap, easy and widely available contraception" when that is already the case? Are you claiming that that is not the current state of things? For all but the most destitute, access to contraception is a non-issue.
Re: (Score:2)
You're really going to argue that after the Hobby Lobby case?
Re: Divisions (Score:2)
Yes actually! In that case the insurance plan covered some twenty type of contraceptives. Their objection was to paying for a couple of specific types. Those types are still available at the persons own cost. Neither are expensive enough that paying for them yourself should be an undue burden.
Re: (Score:2)
Under the ACA, everyone in the United States is required to have health insurance, and health insurance plans are required to provide female contraceptives for free (however, men usually must pay full cost for male contraception). Every women in the United States already has access to free birth control, unless either they are either not complying with the ACA mandate or their employer is one of the very few that have an exemption. Even without insurance, female contraception is around $4-$5 per 28 days a
Re: (Score:2)
How is abortion still an issue?
Because there are people who will not vote for a pro-abortion candidate. To them it's a matter of life and death.
Similarly, there are people who will not vote for an anti-abortion candidate. To them it's also a matter of life and death.
Anything that can be used to get votes will be.
Re: (Score:3)
Who are these people that lay awake at night worrying about whether someone will have an abortion?
The same people who lay awake at night worried about people dying of starvation and/or violence. Whether or not you agree with whether an unborn child is alive or not, in their worldview the unborn child is alive, thus it is murder.
Whether or not you are pro-life or pro-choice, I think understanding the pro-life worldview is not difficult. Its the same as whether or not you believe the earth is flat, or only 6,000 years old. Even if you don't believe it, you can at least intellectually comprehend that th