Kurt Gray on Andover, VA Linux, and LinuxWorld 125
What a short, strange trip it's been
by Kurt GrayI started working at Andover in December 1994. When I was hired here, there were two other full-timers: Bruce Twickler, our boss from Andover, Mass., and a former college roomate of mine, Ed Lecuyer, who got me hired there. We were publishing PhotoMorph software at the time.
Back then, at our office in Westford, Mass, we used boxes of our software inventory as office dividers. Everyday was casual day. We hired more people. A VP of Sales. A CTO and other people. Then we moved to a bigger office in Acton, Mass. We published more software and Web sites.
I became Andover's sys admin and CGI programmer. I was using Linux on my desktop at work and moved some of our Web sites onto Linux servers. Linux made my job easier and more fun so I used Linux and got addicted to reading Slashdot/Freshmeat/Themes.org. As we hired new programmers and sys admins I set them up on Linux boxes.
Then we bought Slashdot. Then we bought Freshmeat. Then working on Slashdot and Freshmeat became part of my job. I can't complain. Then we bought ThinkGeek, AnimationFactory, QuestionExchange...
So today I find myself actually ironing a pair of pants in a hotel room at the Sheraton New York then rushing downstairs for a cab to our booth at LinuxWorld. I get to the convention center and people are watching TV screens near the entrance where Bloomberg news is buzzing about the big deal betwen VA Linux and Andover.Net.
I had some drinks at the hotel with Chris Dibona and the VA gang but I've never met Larry Augustin. I don't even recognize all of the people I work with now. Most of my coworkers have no idea who I am either. What a short, strange trip it's been.
My Sloppy Transcript of Larry Augustin's Keynote
President of IDG introduces Larry Augustin. Applause.
Larry points out that this auditorium [at the Jacob Javits Convention Center in Manhattan] holds 3000 people. Neither Bill Gates nor Steve Jobs have packed this hall when they've spoken here, but yesterday Linus' keynote was standing room only and a full balcony.
Point taken. Audience applause.
Larry talks about how he used to work at Bell Labs. They had Sun machines with preinstallaed software but Larry and his coworkers would download and install free software, not because it was free but because it was better.
A toddler in the audience starts whining. Larry says it is his daughter. Audience chuckles. Baby cries. Baby carriage is wheeled out of the hall. Audience swoons.
Larry talks about how he contributed Bison++. Talks about why Open Source is more efficient and more economically sound.
Rod so-and-so from Intel Marketing comes out and talk about Trillian Open Source code release. One of the engineers from Intel comes out. It's demo time. Real IA64 hardware running IA64 Linux. They have Apache, sendmail, etc. ported over. They demo Apache serving Web pages. Engineer says the porting process was very fast and easy -- "It was a delight," he says. He demos a real time 3D rendering of a skull with rotation and lighting changes. Larry asks, "Is this your skull?" Laughter. Demos MPEG player playing "Prince of Egypt." Full screen. Demos Doom IA32 version, to prove that IA32 binaries run natively on IA64. Intel marketing guys talk about how Open Source helped Intel get Itanium out the door faster thanks to VA and Trillian team. Intel guys exit stage right.
Larry talks about the needs of Open Source projects. Hosting. Community building. Sh*t! my laptop has 36% battery power left! I really should have left this plugged in last night. I'm a dumbass. Before I lose power I want my family to know that my battery died peacefully and painlessly and it was all for the best. I need a plug. I need juice. 35% battery left. Larry is saying it's wrong to separate users from developers. Larry introduces SourceForge. Larry says he'll talk about that more later (after my battery dies I guess). Maybe if I sit closer to the wall there will be a plug. 33%! Sh*t! I picture Abe Simpson at a Springfield town meeting shouting, "Get to the money!" Another SourceForge slide on the big screen. He's going talk about how VA got to SourceForge. He mentioned how he used sites like Freshmeat! 32% battery left. Larry talks about how source code is usually not permanently archived.
Larry introduces John Hall [not maddog, the other one] from VA, who will demo SourceForge. Shot of SourceForge home page (live!) on the big screen. 31% battery. I need a plug. John makes the point that they're hosting open source projects for many platforms. Larry mentions he wanted a finanical organizer and found a program called GnomeGNUTaxes (sp?) -- audience laughs, applauds. That's all I can stand. I have to find a plug.
Damn. I just went all the way up to the balcony looking for a plug and the plug's a non-standard! Sh*t! I'm closing GNOME and shelling out to save a little juice.
29% Battery. John talks about the Quake project. John announces patch manager and and a new code builder/compiler on SourceForge. John exits stage.
Larry introduces developers from KDE and CMU Sphinx. (Sorry - didn't catch their names.) Larry asks them about their projects. 26% battery. KDE developer says they're moving development over to SourceForge.
OK, here's the plan. I'll keep typing until my battery dies, then try to remember the rest. Larry asks why Sphinx went open source. Developer explains that there was a risk there could have been patent issues with Sphinx so they open sourced it to get it in the public record. Audience applause. Developers exit.
Larry mentions Freshmeat, Theme.org, and Slashdot. Larry announces VA acquired Andover.Net. Applause. 23% battery left. Larry introduces Trae McCombs from Themes, Rob Malda from Slashdot, Tony Ganthrop from VA, Adam Green from Andover. Rob immediately asks Larry for a flat screen monitor -- Rob says he can take that one (the huge one on stage). Audience laughs. Larry says these are the people who run these fine Web sites. Applause. Guests leave the stage. Tony hugs Larry when leaving stage. Audience laughs. Larry wraps up. Questions from audience. 20% battery left.
First question: Someone annouces they open sourced some natural language translation software. Larry thanks him for the announcement.
Second Question: Developer of PHP thanks Larry for hosting PHP. Mentions that the build tool on SourceForge is nice but we need build tools for other non-Intel platforms. Larry agrees.
Third Question: Any plans to integrate Freshmeat and SourceForge? Larry says Freshmeat is an index and SourceForge is an archive so he wants to find a way to "pull those together." (I can't help but be nervous about that.)
4th Question: EMC employee asks about VA's business model concerning hosting open source. Larry says Andover sells advertising and VA will also offer corporate support services with hardware. Battery: 18%.
5th Question: Open Source has always been politically confrontational and corporate sponsors will probably discourage confrontations, so would VA be willing to host code such as DeCSS? Audience applause. GOOD QUESTION! Chris Dibona fields this question. Chris says with the Andover acquisition that VA will be more involved with the DeCSS issue. Larry interrupts Chris and says "We'll try to help out with that." (hmmm...)
Larry says lets wrap it up there. We're done. Battery 14%. I'm going back to the booth.
KDE at sourceforge? (Score:1)
is the new freshmeat sourceforge type deal moving over? It seems like a little duplication now
sparkes
*** www.linuxuk.co.uk relaunches 1 Mar 2000 ***
Rob Malda interview with Salon (Score:3)
http://w ww.salon.com/tech/log/2000/02/03/slashdot/index.h
------
IanO
A new record! (Score:2)
--
Java banners:
Bad for users because Java kills Netscape
32% battery life! Sh*t! (Score:1)
Besides the new article posters, I haven't seen that much of a change in the way Slashdot has been run so far. Lets hope it stays that way...
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
VA vs MPAA? (Score:3)
Plus, with a massive legitimate company telling the judge that DeCSS is necessary perhaps he'll take it a bit more seriously?
Kintanon
Andover/VA on car radio (Score:2)
No alter ego today.
Okay, but not great (Score:2)
Just some random thoughts:
- using software boxes as dividers, hell, I think that's better than just buying crap from a company
- I hate taking notes hehe
With feeble attempt issues,
Matthew
_____________________________________
Excuse me (Score:5)
I mean really, all they did was buy a couple of popular Open Source sites. Can you say 'getting in late in the game'? I mean, before they bought slashdot the only thing most of us had heard of them was when that idiot columnist guy wrote a completely unrehearsed piece about Unix and open source in general, and then wrote another piece about how people at slashdot sucked (because we flamed him, etc). A couple weeks later, The bought slashdot.
Now, Andover has been bought out by VA, well great. Now the "leading opensource news site" is owned by $5 billion corporation that has a vested intrest in promoting its services above others. Fantastic.
A couple days ago CmndrTaco said that it was "funny" that Time was reporting on AOL's jacked up AOL 5.0. Will it be 'funny' now when slashdot reports on VA's screwups? Or will VA just never make screwups, is that it?
Ever hear of journalistic independence? I guess not.
Yeh, yeh, mark me down...
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
What's up with the battery? (Score:1)
Re:32% battery life! Sh*t! (Score:1)
It'll be interesting to see if Penguin Computing (and other non-VA Linux focused PC Server companies) will still have banner ads.
-Jordan Henderson
Re:VA vs MPAA? (Score:2)
But why would this (now) be a time for them to step in for DeCSS? Are you just suggesting this because they happen to have a lot of money?
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Re:Rob Malda interview with Salon (Score:1)
> being told what he can or cannot do. Slashdot readers can count on that.
> But isn't this a case in which Caesar's wife must be above suspicion?
> Malda declined to be purchased by VA Linux last year because he wanted
> to avoid even the perception that Slashdot might not be its own
> editorial master.
>
> Too bad. That perception exists now, and there's little that Malda can
> do to change it. The world of free software is all the poorer for it.
What rubbish. The world of free software is poorer because of what? Because money is involved? Not all of us believe that free software is about communism. Jeez.
Re:Rob Malda interview with Salon (Score:1)
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Times they are a changin' (Score:2)
Thankfully, these companies have (so far) proved to be trustworthy and are valuable members of our community. But will it stay that way? How long can it stay that way?
To me, the Linux community has never been about market share, marketing, "owning the desktop" or any of the other goals that these companies are espousing. It's been about cooperation, sharing, helping someone you don't know compile their own kernel for the first time...
This certainly won't change for me, and I imagine it won't change for most of us, but now the sources we depend upon for unbiased news are possibly about to become tainted. I know the reputations involved are without reproach but with SEC requirements, "quiet periods", appearance of impartiality and whatnot I can't help but wonder if this isn't a good thing (tm).
We've seen vague assurances from some of the parties involved that "creative control" will remain the same. Please, please go a step further: Let's see some of the controlling parties come forward and let us know what these changes mean and don't mean! We need official word that integrity isn't going to suffer! When I read a story about a Microsoft product on a Ziff-Davis rag, I consider it sketchy and possibly unreliable. I don't want to feel the same way when I read a VA Linux story on Slashdot.
Re:Excuse me (Score:4)
A couple days ago CmndrTaco said that it was "funny" that Time was reporting on AOL's jacked up AOL 5.0. Will it be 'funny' now when slashdot reports on VA's screwups? Or will VA just never make screwups, is that it?
Ever hear of journalistic independence? I guess not.
I think this is a valid concern, in my mind Slashdot is no longer to be trusted as an actual NEWS site, but only as a Tech site. I'll get my news the way I did before Slashdot, by skimming through all of the mainstream sites here and over seas. I'll still come here for some tech news, but I don't think we can trust any technology reviews anymore. Either they will skew the results in favor of their parent companies when possible or skew the results the OTHER way so as not to look like they are skewing in favor of their parent co.
I fully suspect VA to assign a couple of editors to the site to make sure that the stories are approved of, no matter what they say.
Kintanon
Re:Rob Malda interview with Salon (Score:3)
No, poorer becuase the impartiality is gone. You or Rob or anyone else can say what they want - it isn't impropriety that counts - it is the *appearance* of impropriety.
Quite frankly, I can guarantee you that there won't be articles bashing VA here on
pen and paper (Score:3)
Viva La Self Promotion (Score:2)
Is it me or has Slashdot become completely lame now that it has sold out completely, not once but twice? Now all I seem to read are articles about how XYZ company that bought the parent of Slashdot is so wonderful and John Doe employee of that company is so cool. Snore.
What happened to the stuff that matters? I want articles about idiots trying to boot Linux off pocket calculators, Japanese toliets that analyze do-do and chicks that can calculate PI to 100 decimal places.
Get off your IPO high horse!
Re:A new record! (Score:1)
But I wouldn't move on just yet, remember everyone that said time to move on the last time?
It's the posters that make the place not the guys at the console.
sparkes
*** www.linuxuk.co.uk relaunches 1 Mar 2000 ***
Re:VA vs MPAA? (Score:1)
Re:VA vs MPAA? (Score:2)
But why would this (now) be a time for them to step in for DeCSS? Are you just suggesting this because they happen to have a lot of money?
They just stepped into a very public position by purchasing one of the major voices of the open source community. They have a lot of liquid cash around from that stock offering I imagine, and they have the resources necessary to help defend DeCSS. Prior to this purchase they were somewhat distanced from the conflict, but now they are pretty much squarely in the middle of it considering that their new acquisition has been named as a defendent in the case.
Kintanon
Is VA really committed to the community? (Score:4)
> Larry says these are the people who run
> these fine Web sites.
I hope Kurt Gray made a mistake and that Larry isnt that clueless about his own holdings. Trae did indeed found themes.org, but he doesn't work on it anymore, he runs linux.com. As the project manager of bb.themes.org [themes.org], I have been privy to enough events to know that VA is more interested in politics and hype than the open source community. Hey, they are out to make money just like everyone else, but I doubt we will see any articles on /. to the tune of "VA is the Microsoft of the Linux world" like we got with Red Hat. When VA went public, lots of people got "the letter" but curiously, none of the people who volunteer at themes.org did, even though themes.org was the most popular site in VA's stable of web sites until yesterday. Ever notice how every VA web site is redesigned whenever there is a trade show? This mandate alone has seriously kept themes.org from completing a decent design that loads well in any browser. Will we see a /. redesign every time there is another trade show, too? VA has always scared me, but now that they have such wide reaching potential to hurt the community, I am more scared than ever.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox [alug.org].
Symbiotic relationship (Score:1)
--
Java banners:
Bad for users because Java kills Netscape
Slashdot getting lame (Score:4)
Slashdot is getting lame for other reasons -- mainly, because for some reason moderators are getting more and more anal retentive. More and more often, legitimate posts are moderated down in flames, just because they express a non "mainstream" (WRT to this medium) opinion, or because they're slightly offtopic. But being slightly offtopic can be useful, at times, to draw attention towards something related for example.
Is'nt it interesting to notice, for example, that if some demagogic "libertarian" invokes the Holocaust for the BILLIONth time in defence of the right to buy Uzis at the supermarket, he gets to +3 in minutes, whereas if you just slightly disagree that this is good idea, boom! Bye bye, Karma.
And I guess this is a self fulfilling prophecy ... reload and watch my score ...
Re:Excuse me (Score:1)
I would go one step further. Slashdot can from now on only be trusted as a Tech site for products not related to VA. For example, Slashdot will no longer be trustworthy for news about AMD, because VA has a vested interest (or should I say, VA's backer Intel has a vested interest) in making AMD go away.
Their non-existant journalistic independence is plainly visible on the front page of Slashdot. Roblimo continues to refer to the buyout as a merger. It is NOT a merger! However, the concept of buying out, big money, political interests, etc., does not fit well with free software individuals, so slashdot will not mention it for fear of alientating its readership.
Slashdot's validity as a news medium and Andover (Score:5)
In my mind, Slashdot is still one of the most trusted news forums for me-- because someone can post a message openly criticising their journalistic integrity. There really isn't that much journalism going on by the Slashdot guys, relatively speaking. The ratio of content on this site between what the guys in the Geek Compound here in Michigan post, versus the content posted by YOU worldwide is incredibly large. And the fact that YOU can moderate and score that content is amazingly bold too. If you can, list for me the number of news sites which get as much or more traffic as Slashdot that have a similar tradition of openness.
And as you reply to my message to tell me I'm full of dung, just think about it. You're posting to tell me I'm full of dung. You can do that. And if one of the Slashdot guys posts a story that's completely wrong, you can tell the world that he's full of dung too! In fact, you can go even further and do a bit of corrective journalism and post links and resources which tell a fuller or more correct story.
And what other news medium showed a public figure recant a statement in realtime [slashdot.org]?
I'd really like to know just what it is that Andover has changed about Slashdot, because maybe I'm actually full of dung, but I haven't seen it.
Re:Slashdot's validity as a news medium and Andove (Score:1)
THAT, is the big question. We will know if we see something anti-VA soon, or not.
Re:Rob Malda interview with Salon (Score:1)
We should open a vigorous and open discussion of their Intel-only hardware strategy, however. Could it have anything to do with their deep rooted partnership (or is it more a dominant/submissive relationship?) with Intel?
I think there are significant issues regarding VA Linux that need to be examined. I am sure there are Athlon and Alpha enthusiasts who would agree.
Another new record! (Score:1)
I think the fact that VA Linux layed out a big wad of cash for slashdot and it's andover brethren probably means that they're going to try and keep the good stuff coming. If VA Linux just wanted ad space, they'd advertise. Purchasing internet companies is a significant investment, and turning andover.net into a valinux.com mirror would just be stupid.
I think we should wait for a few weeks to decide whether this is good or bad.
hg
"Rare public appearance" (Score:2)
Did that strike anyone else as unbelievably bizarre? I mean, am I supposed to say "Oooh! I better catch that one, it's a rare public appearance by Kurt Gray? WOW!
Or was Roblimo just joking?
--
Re:Slashdot's validity as a news medium and Andove (Score:1)
You're not full of dung (unless you're Irish like me, we're all full of shite!). You're absolutely right. However, we don't have any control over the content on the homepage, ie. the stories. This is what most people see and read. Do you really think that every slashdotter reads all the comments, let alone most of them?
You can argue that these folks should be going the extra mile themselves and digging below the fold into the comments to get the real dirt, but that would be missing the point.
The integrity at the comments level will remain the same unless sweeping changes are made, and that's a good thing. The integrity at the news story level now has the appearance of impropriety, and this is a bad thing.
DeCSS (Score:1)
What about VA installing it on their machines that they sell
Or putting money into a hardware implementation of it or something?
Then is it this guys fault? (Score:1)
If this is the guy who's admin'ing Slashdot, is it his fault that it's so damn slow all the time?
Either they need a bigger server, or they need to rewrite Slashdot in C rather than Perl.
--
IA64 is a scam (Score:2)
It's time to show all submitted stories (Score:5)
If Penguin Computing (who competes with VA Linux) announces something interesting on their website which is in turn submitted to Slashdot, how can we be sure that it won't get dropped simply because Slashdot's owners are competing with Penguin Computing?
There have been many cries in the past about allowing the general browsers of the site be permitted to view unposted stories, which has so far been denied, but I think that now that Slashdot's integrity may be called into question, it makes more sense than ever to allow access to the other submissions.
A possible alternative would be to allow the moderation of articles *before* they are posted with moderation being granted in a similar fashion to comment moderation. If ten people with such status vote that a certain article should be posted, it instantly gets posted.
I personally don't doubt Slashdot's integrity in the past or the present, but without knowing what *isn't* getting posted, there's simply no way for us be certain that things will remain that way.
--Cycon
Ownership = loss of credibility? Not. (Score:2)
Most newspapers, believe it or not, are not family-owned or staff-owned ventures. They're part of larger media conglomerates: Hollinger/Southam, News Co, Thompson, for example. All the US's major TV networks are owned by conglomerates. These conglomerates frequently have business interests elsewhere.
Some media sources have owners that have an active involvement in day-to-day activities. Look at Conrad Black and his pet newspaper (and money sink), the National Post. Some networks blunt coverage of their parent conglomerates, like CBS did when news about pedophiles working at Disney surfaced (see the Brill's Content Mouse-ke-fear issue). Some newspapers run scared from hometown corporations, like the Cincinatti Enquirer did after it ran, then withdrew, a major expose on Chiquita. And some just leave their newspapers alone.
I think, since I have no reason to think otherwise, that VA is going to leave Slashdot alone. They have no media experience and they really have no interest in using Slashdot as a major advertising vessel quite yet. Remember that their equity valuation is largely based on a hugely successful stock offering, not on an especially large market share.
They might be tempted, but even the slightest hint of interference would destroy Slashdot's credibility outright. Things like this have a way of coming up, no matter how deeply buried they are.
If you want to keep up with media watching, get a subscription to Brill's Content [brillscontent.com] or another media magazine, like Adbusters [adbusters.org]. Be conscious of your media.
--
Re:Excuse me (Score:2)
Re:Times they are a changin' (Score:2)
If it becomes apparent that SlashDot is no longer the voice of the community, no longer an objective resource, but the voice of a single corporation, we have access to the source, and the option and ability to create a new forum.
Until that time, I for one plan to withhold judgement and keep on
And bearing the above in mind, and assuming VA is doing the same, I don't expect to see much in the way of censorship.
Just because a thing has been done is no reason to infer it will be done. Assuming that VA will apply the same controls others have done just because they are for profit isn't fair. Wait until the evidence is in.
And once it is in, and if it does go the way of corporate PR, scream, complain, or better yet, create an alternative. If the alternative meets the needs of the community, and
Re:VA vs MPAA? (Score:1)
--
VA, DeCSS and Corporate behaviour (Score:2)
I think you'll find VA being very careful about their actions regarding DeCSS. VA is getting bigger, more powerful. That means they are going to work hard, very hard to establish a reputation that is acceptable to the "general public". I truly hope that VA will make a stand on the side of DeCSS... I think they believe they have too much to lose, however. I hope circumstances prove me wrong.
Large companies lack warmth, and the larger they become the further they stray from the community. It becomes an issue of money-greed-power. I don't mean to bring up the negative points, but I cannot be entirely optimisitic either.
This is an interesting union to watch, however, I wish all parties concerned the best, but there will definately be rocky times and differences in opinion. Every action is important and will ultimately seal the fate of what is to be. It will be interesting to observe what direction they go in.
Re:Is VA really committed to the community? (Score:1)
Re:Excuse me (Score:2)
vested intrest in promoting its services above others. Fantastic.
A couple days ago CmndrTaco said that it was "funny" that Time was reporting on AOL's jacked up AOL 5.0. Will it be 'funny' now when slashdot reports on VA's screwups? Or will VA just never make screwups, is that it?
Ever hear of journalistic independence? I guess not.
uhhh..I don't think so. What sort of power does VA now wield? If VA doesn't like what
Will we see more VA promotions? maybe...but I don't think that is a bad thing...they are a pretty good company that is supporting linux, and this website. its fine by me.
Re:Rob Malda interview with Salon (Score:1)
Dimes
Some corrections... (Score:1)
Greg Sanders - kfc@themes.org - Colonel_KFC
Don't sell Rob short. (Score:3)
I don't know Rob from anyone, but from what I do know about him, he doesn't seem to be the kind of person who'd compromise his reputation to bow down to the almighty corporation. Has VA ever fucked up? I actually can't think of a time where they did. If they do in the future, I trust Rob would post it. But from the VA track record and what they've given to the community and what they continue to do for us (SourceForge is so cool) I don't think we've got much to worry about.
Give Rob a chance, flame him later if he screws up, but I don't think he will.
Re:Ownership = loss of credibility? Not. (Score:2)
You're right that most people don't trust their newspapers, but for most people who don't it's a knee-jerk reflex. They don't have any reason not to trust any individual story, they just don't trust. This is as dangerous, and as manipulable, as blind trust in the media, and possibly worse.
--
Re:Times they are a changin' (Score:1)
Perhaps. I think not however. Slashdot has aquired a quasi-religion like status among a portion of it's readers. It can do no wrong. This is a good thing because it enforces the sense of community, it's a bad thing because it can blind us to the reality of the situation.
I'm not saying it's the end of Slashdot as we know it, I just know I'd feel a lot more comfortable if we had more official reassurances that things aren't going to change too much.
They're only human after all, and I doubt CmdrTaco will be on the board of directors at VA! ;)
Future of slashdot banner ads (Score:2)
Re:It's time to show all submitted stories (Score:5)
I'm a Slashdot Author for the last 2 years (approx) (I'm posting under the nick HeUnique). I'm not an employee of Andover.net, nor VA research. I also don't have any shares from those companies..
Over the last 2 years, all my stories which I posted were not censored (and I posted stories which pissed off many companies, but I really don't give a f*ck about them).
If I'll find tommorow a story which could do potential (or real) trouble to VA research, I WILL post it - no matter how much trouble it will make to VA or anyone else - this is what I call integrity!
If I'll find censorship (which I really have doubt about it as I know Hemos & Rob) - then be sure that the slashdot readers WILL know about it.
Maybe you didn't know, but stories which are posted on slashdot are not being editing and then published (like on other online media's), but the moment I write a story - it's automatically published here.
Ofcourse, we do talk to each other sometimes (me & Hemos) about if a story should be posted (reasons for this - interest of the slashdot reader, maybe we already published it, maybe it will goto the quickies sections, etc), but I NEVER seen ANY censorship so fat with slashdot.
Thanks
Re:Oh god the irony is killing me (Score:1)
It just isn't healthy to consume this much unintentional humour at one sitting
A poor choice of words on my part I suppose, but you get the idea. It's important that we get an official stance so we can hold them to it down the road.
Setting the Agenda.. (Score:3)
Unfortunate but such is life when big money knocks on the door and demands action, one way or the other.
Re:Slashdot's validity as a news medium and Andove (Score:2)
I think that's what's pissing people off the most here (I know its what's pissing me off). We made slashdot what it was, and then Rob goes off and sells the damn thing, without even consulting us. Many of us felt betrayed. We felt like we were part of a community, and then? Well, it was made apparent that we were just a group of people that could be bought and sold.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
Freshmeat and SourceForge merging (Score:1)
Tension made reading more exciting (Score:1)
I know David Letterman... (Score:1)
I agree... (Score:2)
My existing code lives at scoop.kuro5hin.org [kuro5hin.org], and www.kuro5hin.org [kuro5hin.org] is running scoop as well. The downloadable sources are screwed up right now, but that will be fixed this weekend, along with (hopefully) open content moderation.
--
An amusing quote: (Score:3)
"Outside the community" like VA? Ha.
--
Re:Ownership = loss of credibility? Not. (Score:2)
This story was posted here wasn't it. VA free publicity?
The examples you state are broad media influences. How about some more specific examples?
E.g. - Do you expect Microsoft to get bad press from Microsoft Interactive Developer - a rag they own? Do you expect VA to get bad press from
Get real.
Better Article in Salon (Score:4)
There's an article in Salon today that pretty much sums it up for me. [salon.com] This sort of bullshit is just icing on the cake to what this article has to say -- I just thought it would take longer for Slashdot to show signs of being completely owned. I mean, this is depressing. A mere day after Rob promises that Slashdot will stay independant, we start seeing fscking press releases from VA/Andover. This is the very basis of what worried me when Slashdot got bought.
I know that it's Rob's ball and he can do what he wants with it, but I feel like /. is moving farther and farther away from being something special.
----
A minor correction (Score:3)
I've been there for Gates and Jobs. They filled the hall too.
Linux is big and getting bigger, don't puff if up to be even bigger than it already is. That's a common corporate BS game, that Microsoft plays especially well. The Linux world doesn't want to play there.
Steven, Editor at Large, Sm@rt Reseller
http://www.zdnet.com/sr
calm down (Score:3)
Rob and the guys have been doing this as a hobby for fun for quite a long time. Now lots of peripheral things have happened, but Slashdot is still a bunch of techies writing news for techies. Do you really think any of the admins would really stand for it if Andover or VA attempted to pollute their integrity with gratuitous articles? So Andover "bought" Slashdot and VA "bought" Andover. It just means the checks have different return addresses on them, that's all. I think it is quite obvious that techies and the open-source community are the MOST touchy when comes to exploitation or commercialization. Why would VA or Andover want to shoot themselves in the foot by pissing off their whole target audience? The only way you win in this new market is by the good graces of the community. Nobody wants to piss anybody off.
Jazilla.org - the Java Mozilla [sourceforge.net]
Re:Times they are a changin' (Score:1)
I just opened Slate's site right now, and at least now they prominently state that their affiliated with Microsoft/MSN. Will VA have the integrity to at least do the same for Slashdot? Or will new visitors a few months from now be given no clue that the site they're visiting is owned by VA Linux?
Re:Excuse me (Score:2)
Re:Slashdot's validity as a news medium and Andove (Score:2)
"And what other news medium showed a public figure recant a statement in realtime?"
TV... Radio... Town criers... (oyez, oyez, the mayor is speaking of seting the witches free. Come say your piece!) Let's not get carried away with the instantaniety of the web. Life has always been realtime -- with an amazing bandwidth.
In modern life, the act of 'recanting' means announcing it to the media (You can't 'recant in your heart'; it's not Galileo's world anymore). Every live press conference, debate, or press seige on the way from plane to limo is potentially a real-time recant. You've probably seen dozens of real-time recants, and never thought anything of it.
I strongly agree with your major point, however, you are presuming that everything works as we like to assume it does.
Suppose I told you that yesterday, dozens of posts critical of
It happened. And I'm even glad it did.
The posts were announcements and demonstrations of a weakness in the Slash
This action protected us from possibly dangerous embedded HTML, and though I'd have prefered to see it handled diferently, I full appreciate that the 'need for speed' was pressing.
However, they never announced what they were doing this or how to view the downrated posts (browse after manually changing the filte level in the URL to -9999)
I trust
As regards editorial content and viewpoint: whatever their intent, guys who were on display at a packed Jacob Javits Center yesterday (vs. hacking in torn underwear behind the quasi-anonymity of a monitor in 'the compound' in MI) can be forgiven if their viewpoint drifts or mutates. We've all seen the process a hundred times both in real life and on the web
Re:What's up with the battery? (Score:1)
Oh come on... (Score:1)
On a side-note, what happened to TacoHell?
/joeyo
Guilty until proven innocent (Score:1)
Not that I object. Quite the contrary. Anything that serves as a watchdog _needs_ to be suspicious. Check the replies and the moderations and always take with copious quanties of NaCl.
Re:calm down (Score:1)
They are here to make money, and if they can make
it using
Who gives a sh*t about open source or freedom,
if we're talking millions of dollars here ???
Innocent until proven guilty (Score:1)
Er, which people would those be? The "true meaning" of the phrase is a reference to criminal court proceedings and nothing else. It is a legal principle in some countries that in cases of ambiguous evidence, the defendant shall not be considered guilty. In the real world outside the courts, its no better an assumption than any other.
A random wild plant that someone says "hey maybe we can eat this" is considered guilty until proven innocent - I won't eat it without evidence that it won't harm me. A stray cat is considered innocent until proven guilty - I don't assume it has rabies and will lunge towards me to bite when I say "hey kitty kitty." Large corporate entities which buy news and discussion media devoted to their area of investment are considered guilty until proven innocent - there is just no good reason to assume that a company would let one of it's investments endanger the others.
The legal principles of one system do not a global philosophy make.
-Kahuna Burger
Re:Excuse me (Score:2)
Common, get your facts straight. It was emmet who posted that story and who made the "funny" comment.
Thimo
PS: CmdrTaco, keep up the good work. Thank you!!!
--
Re:Excuse me (Score:3)
Besides, Slashdot chooses articles based on a loose "This is cool!" criteria. You damage this, you damage the site. Since the inherent biases of the authors are going to be strongly in support of VA regardless of what happens, I see no reason for VA to ham-handedly change things.
Of course I'm upset for two other reasons - I wanted to invest in Andover since I suspect the stock is a good Linux play, and now absurdly overvalued VA has taken it over and I lose the opportunity. Also, on the whole I hate takeovers because they create knotty bureaucratic problems. I can only hope this is an exception.
D
----
Re:Excuse me (Score:5)
When has Slashdot ever been trustable as a news site? I like Slashdot, and it has a lot to recommend it, but journalistic excellence has never been one of those things: the so-called ``stories'' have always been poorly researched, highly biased, and half the time, just plain wrong.
Slashdot is a big set of bookmarks pointing at news reported by others; plus a discussion forum. As such it has value. But comparing Slashdot to Time is ridiculous.
I have pretty close to zero respect for Time's journalistic integrity, but Slashdot isn't even playing the same game. Not that Slashdot is worse, but that Slashdot isn't trying to do the same thing at all. It's apples and oranges.
Re:Ownership = loss of credibility? Not. (Score:2)
Now, you are comparing apples and oranges. Microsoft Interactive Developer isn't an independent rag that they own; it's a house publication of Microsoft.
Slashdot has an independent existence and independent readership; it covers topics that VA has no interest in as well as topics that they do.
The point is that slashdot presently has an existence apart from VA. They could shut
When you hear about slashdot (CmdrTaco and Hemos, really) moving on to positions in other business areas at VA, or being replaced by people from VA, then you should worry. Right now, there's no reason to worry - just to watch.
--
Slashdot SysOps have had no time to react (Score:4)
I was at the Javits Center in NYC for about three hours. I talked to Rob Malda for quite a while about the Slash engine. I saw Hemos, Roblimo, and a number of other people around the booth. They were getting ready for their party, where they gave out some awards. They looked like they hadn't slept well in a few days.
The conclusion that I came to, and it seems obvious from my perspective, is that articles posted about the Andover-VA merger are being posted because the Slashdot authors think that they will help the community understand what's happening, and what people are thinking at the moment. Whether that is actually true or not is entirely dependent upon your perspective.
I've worked trade shows in the past. The world outside the convention center could have ended yesterday, and people working the show floor probably didn't notice. You have a tendency to think you are aware of what's happening in the world, but you almost certainly miss a lot.
I think the Slashdot authors will produce more understandable, insightful stuff about the merger once they get a chance to go back and sleep in their own beds for a few days. But, considering the environment they are in at the moment, they are doing a pretty good job.
--
Dave Aiello
Just a reality check... (Score:3)
Andover did NOT MERGE with VA. VA BOUGHT Andover.
Maybe they think they are actually the end-all of geek news. Damn, I know at least 10 SysAdmins that don't read
Please, deflate your heads and hit the floor running...
Re:Get A GodDamn Life. (Score:1)
Really? is it equally sad that a post on a website can piss you off?
Anyway, I never said I felt pissed of, only rejected/dejected/whatever.
. This place is run by the
I don't know many companies that can survive by only selling things to themselves. I would certainly like to see slashdot survive without its readership.
This place is run by the
I don't know where you get your spoiled brat sense of entitlement but it's is not only childish it is boring.
I'll feel however I damn well please.
You're never going to get laid with that attitude.
I don't know if this is supposed to be a tagline or not, but since you are AC, I can only conclude that it isn't. Anyway, I have not trouble getting laid.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
Thanks for the post. (Score:1)
Disclaimer. I am reading and posting this with IE5/NT4. (Haven't taken the plunge yet.) Besides,
Off Topic. I just saw the QOTD, and the mouthful of coffe went flying. "Trust me" (translation of the Latin: "caveat emptor." How do they do these things?
Re:Ownership = loss of credibility? Not. (Score:2)
Right. And the sun didn't fall from the sky today, so I can safely assume that the gods approved of my blood sacrifice of your cats.
I can understand general concerns about the influence of VA on /., but let's be real. VA is probably the most trusted name in the field of Linux OEMs. If they had acquired just about any web site of note, I'd have expected to see it here.
Re:Is VA really committed to the community? (Score:1)
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox [alug.org].
Re:Slashdot SysOps have had no time to react (Score:1)
>the community understand what's happening, and
>what people are thinking at the moment
Yes, we at the community are so stupid, we need
help from CmdrTaco & Roblimo to understand what's
going on, and what to think (at the moment).
Thank you, Robs !!
Now my thoughts are so clear, Kurt is a cool guy,
Larry is cool too, battery must be 0% by now.
whate are (Score:1)
Re:Is VA really committed to the community? (Score:1)
Re:Excuse me (Score:2)
Never knock on Death's door:
Posters getting lame (Score:1)
True dat to most of your post (except for the over used demagogic limosine lefty cliche's. "demagogic" is a term for beliefs that fall on the liberal-conservative spectrum of heartstrings, which libertarians tend to ignore in favour of looking at the mechanics of an issue, but we can't all be perfect). I think it's unfortunate that we see a lot of posts snowball their way to the top, but who gives a toss, realy? So some schmo has a higher 'karma' rating than you. Who's added more to the community? Who can goto bed at nite knowing that they did their part (start battle hymn of the republic here)? And who doesn't have to wory about going to hell for starting a new thread while quoting from another one, just to be noticed by the moderators?
In truth, those who screw with the system here or brown nose their way to high ratings may have a higher level of karma on /., but their karma in real life probably damns them to a reincarnation as a starving child on a Sally Struthers commercial. Just keep fighting the good fight. You'll get your due.
On another note, it's neat how people who bitch about the fact that their messages are likely to be moderated to a sub-zero rating often find themselves with 4's and 5's. Just goes to show that reverse psychology is real and that moderators are, in fact, lemmings.
hg
Re:Excuse me (Score:1)
Is it a coincidence that as soon as Intel invested AMD was not mentioned?
Given the shortages of Intel CPu's these days and the general availability of Intel, one wonders just how much pro Intel VALinux is.
Meanwhile i have reservations of any site owned or supported by Software/Hardware Companies. Historically there has been suble influence.
To now
I am a former suit, and know how marketing and PR influence other divisons.
Re:It's time to show all submitted stories (Score:1)
Is a rich nerd still a nerd? (Score:1)
Totally agree with elegant7x !
On a different note:
Is a rich geek still a geek?
Is a rich nerd still a nerd?
Corollary: Is Bill Gates still a nerd?
My personal answer is: No.
Zeb
SourceForge + Freshmeat? (Score:1)
Seriously, you can yammer on about the impartiality issue, but what I really want to know is if/when/how Freshmeat and SourceForge will be merged/reconciled/etc?
Thanks to whomever brought that up during the presentation.
Generation of content isn't the issue here. (Score:2)
All they have to do is not to link to stories that show them in a negative light, and link to the ones that do. It isn't direct lying, but it qualifies as witholding the full truth. I don't have time to wade through hundreds of other news sites looking for stories. But then again, on the other hand, it is true that
But at least we still have the discussion forum.
Re:It's time to show all submitted stories (Score:2)
Yeah. What HeUnique said.
If I see a story about any computer company, positive or negative, my only concern when deciding whether to run it [slashdot.org] is: "is this newsworthy? is it of interest to Slashdot readers?" I'll keep doing things that way regardless of what company owns Slashdot.
Censorship of these stories hasn't been a blip on my radar. In fact, it's been explained to me that if I ever think someone "corporate" is trying to tell me what I should write or run, I should raise a huge stink about it. If it ever happens, I will.
Jamie McCarthy
*I* Got the Letter: (Score:2)
Dear Slashdot Readers,
Thank you for reading my site. It has come to my attention that some people have expressed interest in compensating me for the hours of hard work I have spent on running this site, whether by writing and re-writing the software that runs it, or by sifting through piles of e-mail and submissions to find interesting things to post.
I don't have to tell you how much time you have spent reloading -- truly, we would not be where we are without you.
I would also like to take this opportunity to ask your permission to sell this site to a company that is prepared to make it run faster and to enable me to spend more time making it better instead of standing in line at the soup kitchen. Consequently, we shall have a famous Slashdot poll dedicated to that very issue. The question shall be, "Should we sell Slashdot?" The answers will be "Yes", "No", "CowboyNeal", and "Why are you asking me, freak?"
Please take the time to answer, because we're obviously not qualified to make decisions about our labor of love.
Your friend,
Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda
--
The tone and the real deal. (Score:1)
Check out these lines:
Juxtaposed with this:
And this: The whole breakdown of Larry Agustin's keynote is in short, trite language. Cold and dispassionate.
The fact that Roblimo posted this article probably suggests that Kurt's sentiment isin't all that rare. Throughout Andover, Slashdot, Freshmeat..
Who can blame the Slashdot boys for cashing in? I'd take the money too. I understand it was quite a bit. Oh well. It was fun while it lasted.
Whats kindof neat to think about is that because of Malda's pseudo-celebrity status, he could recreate slashdot in it's original image somewhere else, out of the clutches of money interests. that is.. when he's done getting paychecks.
Re:Excuse me (Score:1)
And I can't in good conscience give these character statements much creedence. I like Slashdot a lot and respect the work that went into it and the function it performs, which is more than several people I know would say. But, I find the personal testimonials distracting, and would like a more advanced sort of discussion about this issue.
Other news sources (Score:1)
Editorial freedom for Slashdot or not, I'd like to diversify my newsreading by quite a bit, like maybe check in with five or ten sites on my own instead of just Slashdot or articles on other sites that Slashdot refers me to. What other sites to Slashdot-ers read to get their tech news?
I've got a few to start, but not many.
I anxiously await your suggestions.
Re:Is VA really committed to the community? (Score:1)
On this site we have seen negative reporting of Micro$oft and it's monopolistic attitudes, as well as a call to arms over AOL/Time Warner etc. Now it happens in our community and I'm surprised that more of you aren't up in arms. Maybe this won't have a negative repercussion on /. but it's the principle of the thing. I thought that at the heart of this movement were certain ideas and now as we see them collapse when challenged, shouldn't we call bullshit on this?
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss..."
if Linus had done this (Score:1)
i think we should all be v thankful to Linus for not succumbing to these 'corporate' pulls as the founders of slashdot apparently did when they first sold it to Andover. Just imagine if you were Linus, getting to those billions would seem tooooooo tempting. the only other person of such integrity i can think of is Gandhi.
however founders of slashdot may justify it, the fact is that (anykind of) leadership of the open source movement (or any movement) demands 100% purity/integrity which slashdot now does not have. it's easy to sell out for the present and then justify it for the rest of your lives.
If you can't trust "them"... (Score:1)
Re:if Linus had done this (Score:1)
I really don't think they are even going to touch Slashdot, or change how it works. They would be fools. They bought a money maker, they didn't buy a failing business. TOomake editorial decisions on a journalistic site like Slashdot would kill it.
My guess is that when VA needs criticizing, Rob, Jeff and others will be around to criticize. When they deserve praise, they'll get it as well. and that includes every other company and organization in the Open Source community.
Lets grow up people, people wanted Open Source to be viable in business situations, and it now is, now people complain that people are selling out.
I know some of the Slashdot people, and the ones I know have integrity, why not wait and see what actually happens before deciding they have no credibility.
-Pat
Re: Sengan (Score:1)
Get a clue! (Score:2)
Maybe if you actually bothered to read /. instead of just whining, you would have read the "official message" right here [slashdot.org]
Rob said:
Now whether that satisfies you or not is up to you. If you ask me, I'm fine with it - go and read the Slashdot Interview with Rob and Hermos (where we got to ask questions) if it's not. They were at pains to point out that they had a pretty good lawyer who got them a contract that let them say what they like.
For example, /. posted plenty of stories about the linux.com bidding war, and who was going to buy it, etc. Now if that wasn't in direct competition with /. and Andover (although I'm not sure if Andover owned them then), then I don't know what is.
I know this isn't going to shut people up. The way I look at it, if you don't like /., don't read it - or go and start your own competition. You can even use the slash code, now - so what's stopping you?