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The Internet

Seanbaby.com 247

Posted by JonKatz from the more-interesting-by-far-than-CNN dept.
It's obvious that Seanbaby.com is funny, weird and distinctive, a showcase example of how idiosyncratic personalities, viewpoints and sub-cultures can flourish on a free, non-corporatized Internet. It's not as clear why Seanbaby is important, a vital but endangered Web species that needs to grow and prosper in a world whose desktop is being shaped by Microsoft and AOL/Time-Warner.

If there's a single trait most people who read Slashdot share -- maybe the only one besides an addiction to software -- it's a love of popular culture.

Culture has become a huge term, expanding by the week. It has come to include superhero comics, trashy daytime TV, sci-fi TV shows and websites, indie rock, rap and hip-hop, gaming, anime, cartoons, whatever. High culture -- the traditional, respectable, well-funded kind -- gets covered and criticized in the other media. But upstart culture, especially low cyberculture, can be wondrous stuff, an explosition of idiosyncratic voices that gives birth to this website and to Seanbaby.com. Interesting, valuable, fragile and endangered, Seanbaby.com is in its unique way, very significant.

In fact, for those working to maintain their sanity in the Disney/Sony/ AOL/Microsoft nation forming off and around the Web, The Seanbaby News Stupid Probe is a great place to start the day.

You won't get the world as presented by the Today Show there. Instead, you'll encounter what the site itself describes as news that will "kick your head's ass," focusing on frivolous lawsuits, exploding animals, chainsaws and chickenheads. You won't want to miss the Stupid Forum either. This is a look into the soul of the real America, at least a significant chunk of it.

Seanbaby is direct, if nothing else -- most media is not. It describes itself as intended for people over 18 -- only because, as we all know, kids will shoot one another if they hear or see dirty words. Seriously Seanbaby.com is what the late, lamented Suck really wanted to be but couldn't quite pull off. From the 20 worst NES games to Superhero Bios featuring stories, comics and videos about Aquaman, Lex Luthor and all their stupid friends, this site bristles with 'tude, shared cultural references, biting, anti-hypocritical humor. It rakes the moral pompousity that passes for discussion of digital and other culture in Washington, on campus and in much of the other press. It also manages to capture a lot of the lunacy.

The site's links and forms veer off in some strange directions, but Seanbaby.com is a great antidote to news, culture and the corporate entertainment machine as presented in the Corporate Republic.

Seanbaby is one of the reasons the Web's still-vibrant climate of individualistic expression needs to be preserved as Microsoft and AOL/Time-Warner gather their forces like two giant and rapacious dinosaurs to plot out the future of the desktop. (Believe me, if either or both win, Seanbaby.com won't be there.) Seanbaby.com is the voice of the other Web, the "real" web, if you prefer. It understands that comics, The Simpsons, and Nintendo aren't just "entertainment" -- they're the basis of whole sub-cultures affecting and shaping people's lives. It suggests the promise of the medium to create original and outspoken content and link people with distinctive sensibilities, two things the AOL culture relentlessly destroys, no matter what it owns, buys or acquires (AOL/Time-Warner is now trashing up the snoozy CNN news network by adding -- what else? -- lifestyle, celebrity gossip, and health stories -- and by hiring the usual platoons of blow-dried airheads. That won't get younger viewers either. The money they're wasting could launch tens of thousands of Seanbabies).

"You should know that some pussies have been known to find sarcasm and bad words confusing and offensive," writes Seanbaby, whose bio also appears on the site. "If so, I, your sexual fantasy from the future, advise you to find a new source of free comedy, caveman. For those who stayed at the risk of face rockage, you should know that soon, like all Earth entertainment, this site will be replaced by Doctor Excitement's Fun Blaster, a peace-bringing combination midget generator and launcher."

Old fart media execs wondering what they have to do to get young people to consume mainstream media have only to log onto Seanbaby.com to understand why they never will, and don't really even want to. This freedom and voice and community and definition of culture will never enter a straight newspaper, pop up on a network newscast or, for that matter, appear on Slate or Salon. Yet it reflects its new culture as well as the New Yorker Magazine mirrors the old. For as long as it lasts in this parlous time of Web sanitation, may it grow and prosper, and spawn a thousand more just like it.
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Seanbaby.com

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  • Been there (Score:2, Informative)

    by Kargan ( 250092 )
    I've read Seanbaby numerous times, and I have to admit that the Superfriends bios were fsckin' hilarious. Then, one day, I clicked on the little picture of a bear cub on the front page and found lots of descriptive words and photos about how this little cub, confused and frightened in the city, scrambled up a telephone pole, where it made contact with some wires that it shouldn't have, and was electrocuted and burned to death. Just exactly what is funny and refreshing about that? I was actually rather horrified to see it in such graphic detail. Humor: the suffering and death of innocent animals? I'm sorry, and call me whatever you want, (I really don't care!) but I anyone who considers that kind of thing to be funny has something very wrong with them.
  • High culture -- the traditional, respectable, well-funded kind -- gets covered and criticized in the other media. But upstart culture, especially low cyberculture, can be wondrous stuff, an explosition of idiosyncratic voices that gives birth to this website and to Seanbaby.com. Interesting, valuable, fragile and endangered, Seanbaby.com is in its unique way, very significant

    Can you kindly tell us what is that "high culture" you are talking about?

    Classical Music, Opera or Ballet perhaps? No coverage of the media.

    Serious books aiming to more than provide a nice reading for your summer holidays? No, those are not covered by the media either.

    Painting, architecture? No, one hour per week in CNN does not count as coverage.

    So what is that "high culture" that MS-AOL-The BIG MEDIA are promoting?

  • If there's a single trait most people who read Slashdot share -- maybe the only one besides an addiction to software -- it's a love of popular culture.

    You forgot to mention utter disbelief at how your articles get posted here as a shared Slashdotter trait.
  • 'This site is intended for people over 18, but only because kids
    shoot each other if they hear the word "fuck."'
  • Then you've probably not heard of x-entertainment.com [x-entertainment.com] either.

    Go there, be happy.
  • /. being owned by VA makes it part of the corporate Internet, no? Quick ma, run for the hills!

    Jon, I don't think you should be suprised there's still cool, small(ish?)-scale, independent stuff happening on the web. Such as (here comes the inevitable plug!) my recently launched newsfilter.co.uk [newsfilter.co.uk]. Erm, I guess someone other than me should decide if it's cool, but, whatever...

    There will always be small, independent stuff springing up - I have no doubts about that. Some of it will grow into something bigger, and become part of the "evil" corporate world. Some will tick over at a smaller scale hobby level. Others will fade away. It's all good stuff.

    And it will continue to happen, whether or not Steve and Bill end up owning the 'net. That much should not be suprising.

    ...j
  • If there's a single trait most people who read Slashdot share -- maybe the only one besides an addiction to software -- it's a love of popular culture.

    Is it just me, or does this puzzle anyone else? When I hear/read the term 'popular culture', it is the AOL/TW/MS/NBC/ABC/CBS version of 'culture' that is meant.

    ???

    • I think the difference is best expressed by the terms "popular culture" (which is the mainstream media consisting of AOL/TW, ABC/Disney&Co, MS/NBC, Murdoch/Faux, insert-giant-media-conglomerate-here) and "pop culture", which is the random bits of popular culture that, for whatever reason, get picked out and woven into the common tapestry of the culture of our generation (whichever generation that may be). Pop culture draws on parts of popular culture and other cultural flotsam and jetsam ("All Your Base Are Belong To Us", anyone?) and occasionally (and increasingly) popular culture will recycle a bit of pop culture for its own nefarious purposes (generally, to induce us to buy stuff).

      Or maybe I've just had too much caffeine today.

  • Slashdot has begun linking to sites that aren't DMCA-awareness advocacy groups! Really...I was actually planning on reading some of the Hostess Fruit Pies archives today. I guess I can throw that plan out the window now that poor ol' Seanbaby's gonna get /.ed...
  • is one of the other sites that I check religiously. Sick, perverse, unreasonably cruel and funny uber alles. It's what the editors of Rotten do when they're not posting fleshy bits. Esp good was the Shrek review.

    But yeah, I've wasted a crapload of time going through archives of seanbaby and SA. Unlike stile's linkfests, there's actually chunky stuff there.

    And remember, everyone wants a piece of you.
  • This is a bit off-topic, but it has to be said. In case you (yes, you jonkatz!) didnt realise, CNN is part of AOL-TW. CNN is not trying to appeal to a younger audience, AOL-TW is using it as a platform to sell its other interests. That is why on top of the CNN webpage there are links to download AIM, Netscape, AOL (500 hours free!). I think that AOL-TW is the worst perpetrator of "synergy", every damn thing they do has some kind of tie-in with another type of media.

  • "it's a love of popular culture."

    I'm sorry, I seem to have wandered into the wrong website. I'm looking for Slashdot. I'm not entirely sure how I wound up at msn.com instead. I guess that'll teach me to use IE...

    You see, "popular culture" has the word "popular" in it, which means "involving many people." Big media corporations have figured out what this is and offer it in a neat little box with a pretty pink bow around it, and like hotcakes it does sell because that's the definition of "popular."

  • If there's a single trait most people who read Slashdot share -- maybe the only one besides an addiction to software -- it's a love of popular culture.

    Pop culture, no... sub-culture maybe. AOL/Time Warner is pop culture. MTV is. Abercrombie and Fitch, and Hot Topic are. Pepsi and Coke certainly are. Face it, listening to indie rock has become part of pop culture. Buying a T-shirt from unamerican.com [unamerican.com] promotes conformity through individuality.

    Advertizing has become insidious, with people completely unaware that astroturfing is occuring. Think the Soppranos just became popular? No, they paid radio stations to talk the show up in banter format as opposed to a commercial. I won't argue whether or not it is a good show, but I won't watch it either because its advertisement is morally objectionable. You are conditioned to like things, you are conditioned to buy certain things... Clever marketing is taking over your lives.
    • Buying a T-shirt from unamerican.com promotes conformity through individuality.

      Wow, I think I've found my new .sig - a more pithy summation of current youth culture does not exist. Thanks for making my day.

    • Good post, Walnut.

      For those interested, this matter is actually given a rather thorough examination in a recent book called "Nobrow - the Culture of Marketing, the Marketing of Culture" [amazon.com].

      The "Kirkus Review" of the book offers the following summation,
      "A New Yorker staffer explores the convergence of highbrow and lowbrow- nobrow- as salesmanship replaces worth. As a prime offender, he cites The New Yorker in its Brownian-Newhousian incarnation. The days when taste denoted power and power embodied taste were disappearing even as Russell Lynes wrote The Tastemakers years ago. Now what rules is buzz. The new buccaneers of buzz, the commercial arbiters of what tomorrow's fashion must be, are in charge, says Seabrook (Deeper, 1997). Kicking off in quasi-gonzo mode, he soon settles into more traditional reportage. There is even a riff on the old-school haberdashery of his dandy father, hauled out in contrast with the current style of his own expensive T-shirts, which are inscribed with advertising or made not to be laundered. Seabrook takes us along to pay tribute to a 15-year-old quondam rock star and immerses us in the blare and hustle of MTV. We tour the hip emporia of SoHo, check in with the ineffable David Geffen, and visit Star Warsnot the film but the marketing industry, including the elusive George Lucas himself. Content is commotion, melody is cacophony, ephemera is all, and teenage funk rules, man. It's phat, it's fly, it's trash. Seabrook, a thoughtful Ivy Leaguer who recently turned 39, is high on hip-hop. He's a fan of rap and such enigmatic entities as Rage Against the Machine and Dr. Dre. He sees former boss Tina Brown as Madame de Pompadour in a product-placement society in which the artists formerly known as Mozart and Shakespeare are replaced from top to deep, deep bottom by talentless ``performance artists'' and gangsta rap. A lively ethnology of a strange society that is devoid of culture in any classical sense, one whose wayward press enthusiastically celebrates what looks more and more like a mosh pit. It's a report from a cultural black hole. -- Copyright ©2000, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved."
      Seabrook is certainly not the first to address the problem, and I suspect there are superior works on the subject. But this is a good starting point.

      • Thanks, but... Do you realize you just advertized for the book?

        • No. I referred one to a book. If I was being compensated in some way to plug the book, that would be advertising. I am not the author, and I don't get a commission on sales generated by my link provided to Amazon.

          Disdain for the consumption culture is certainly warranted. Where one draws the boundries are a matter of personal opinion and principle. You recommend products to friends- albums, movies, books, ideas. Is it advertising? Word-of-mouth is a form of advertising wherein the incentives to suggest a particular product are the rewards of seeing others benefit from them in some way (edification, entertainment, etc.). The motivations of adveristing are monetary- the motivations of word-of-mouth are more likely altruistic. (I do not directly benefit in any way if you or a stranger buy the book on my suggestion, and learn something useful from it.)

  • "It's not as clear why Seanbaby is important, a vital but endangered Web species ..."

    One of the vital "I've been slashdotted" species.

    --Yahiko

  • Why Katz is largely unloved on Slashdot (Score:3, Troll)

    by sv0f ( 197289 ) on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @12:13PM (#2119493)
    If there's a single trait most people who read Slashdot share -- maybe the only one besides an addiction to software -- it's a love of popular culture.

    Actually, I don't think this is true, and this is why Katz catches so much flack around here.

    Katz is not a techie, but rather a fan of tech/popular culture. Most folks come here for tech news, not cultural news. When the two intersect, as when a computer-animated movie is released, Katz invariably emphasizes 'the stuff cultural theorists care about' and de-emphasizes or fails to understand the stuff techies care about -- and gets flamed for it.
    • Katz-bashing is so de rigueur on Slashdot that I find myself increasingly less interested in participating in it.

      I do have to say, however, that I agree with your general assertion. I would only disagree with your statement that Katz emphasizes "the stuff cultural theorists care about".

      With respect to cultural theorists, media ecologists [pbs.org] and sociologists, their concerns are considerably more weighty and substantive than the techpop-culture musings that pass for thoughtful commentary here (most often prompted by a Katz article).

      I would say, then, that Katz emphasizes "the stuff that tech/pop-culture columnists care about". Small distinct, but I think necessary to show respect for the complex (if soft) sciences of media/cultural theory.
  • He can't afford the views we're dumping on him! Do you want to kill the poor guy? Proud Owner of a signed seanbaby tshirt skye
  • Go HERE [fatchicksinpartyhats.com]. Somehow related to seanbaby. Thank me later.
  • While I do not know about seanbaby.com not "being there" if AOL or M$ get "control", i agree that this kind of independent and uncurtailed web site/news post/opinion page scares the heck out of old-school media conglomerates and industry. Corporations have always thrived on controlling the flow of information.

    Why do you buy a product? You were informed about it. By who? Under what influence? Think about the ungodly amount of information and awareness manipulation [yes you are manipulated!] that occurs everyday. Feeling unhappy? Buy a car! Feeling ugly? You need makeup and plastic surgery! Consumerism, folks...

    The web (but not necessarily seanbaby :) causes this flow of information [read--propoganda] to become a fictional pastime of greedy corporations. If you can find true accounts and reports, rather than a stem of corporate sponsored media and advertisment, suddently the consumer is aware and a little smarter. Even better, imagine a society where consumerism in't the name of the game, and happiness/enlightenment/existance involves more then just a sale at the mall...

    Ah, the informed consumer. What America as a culture needs, but what america as a business fears...

    ----------------rhad

  • Although Seanbaby is on the bleeding edge of the bleeding edge, I'm surprised Katz didn't mention other sites. Old Man Murray [oldmanmurray.com], Portal of Evil [portalofevil.com], Something Awful [www.somethingawful], Jerkcity [jerkcity.com], hell even my site, Gamer's Angst [gamersangst.com], are all sites offering a more cutting view of the world.

    Seanbaby is just one of a hundred sites out there offering not just pop culture commentary, but honestly some of the more cutting edge humor available today (except for our site. Our Tshirt slogan is "They're not funny"). Seanbaby just happens to be the best at it.

    More disturbing is Katz weekly trumpeting of the impending AOLTW/Microsoft/Whoever else takeover of the Internet.

    Of course we should be aware about these things, of course we should celebrate sites like Seanbaby that, frankly, rock. But can we tone down the "DEAR GOD QUICK EVERYONE READ SEANBABY TO STOP THE AOL YOU GOT MAIL MONSTER OMGWTF!" hysteria?

    S.
  • I think there is a large proliferation out there of non-corporate content creation sites scattered all over the web. By virtue of being non-corporate, they are just harder to locate unless you are told about it, or happen to pick it up in an off-beat search. For example, another great undiscovered content producer is www.digiclair.com which produces a mix of serious technology and gaming articles with rants and satire pieces. All good stuff, just not well known(til now ;-) ).

    Craig.
  • Great...read all about how this site is "better than CNN" yet it sure can't handle the hits. So please, somebody, tell me why this is so much better. Popular Culture? Popular Culture wants a damn site that can handle some traffic.
  • See. . , what I don't get is this:

    I hate the spew of AOL/Time-Warner, etc.

    But neither can I stand the bullshit spewed by moron sites like Seanbaby. I don't care about silly news items or about honing a youthful irreverent attitude toward popular media.

    Whether it's "culture", or "counter-culture", it's still the same light-weight, glittery awareness-lowering, brain-decaying garbage that everybody is running around paying way too much attention to.

    I don't give a rat's ass about Aquaman or Bart-fucking-Simpson or the 'Family Guy' anymore than I do about the latest CNN mis-information propaganda.

    It's all just material generated by the same zombie assholes who want everybody to work 10 hour days, eat too many food additives and continue raping the Earth in order to produce more stupid & useless shit. To extend the greed and suffering to all new levels.

    Culture on this landmass is less than a complete fucking joke. It's a mind-control program deluxe.

    Seanbaby is almost worse than AOL; Those who think they're somehow breaking free of the program through a "counter-culture" response, are only re-enforcing their participation by regurgitating the same old shit by way of a subroutine designed to capture all the sheep who fall through the cracks and threaten to maybe maybe wake up.

    The only true rebellion is to cut the umbilical cord altogether. There's a whole world out here. . .

    -Fantastic Lad The most half-awake Lad of them all!

  • It understands that comics, The Simpsons, and Nintendo aren't just "entertainment" -- they're the basis of whole sub-cultures affecting and shaping people's lives

    Not to troll or anything, but i'm fairly certain that the assertion that cartoons and an antequated game console system are the foundations of a powerful counterculture is something seanbaby would probably consider explosively retarded.

    In other bits-from-a-katz-article-I-don't-get news:

    if there's a single trait most people who read Slashdot share -- maybe the only one besides an addiction to software -- it's a love of popular culture.
    And yet,

    Old fart media execs wondering what they have to do to get young people to consume mainstream media have only to log onto Seanbaby.com to understand why they never will, and don't really even want to.

    Which is it? We love popular culture, but will never consume it? What? Is Simpsons not "mainstream"? What do you think Nintendo is, if not an old fart corporation? Jesus, Katz. Figure out what the hell you're trying to say. Geeks love to consume popular culture, but are to savvy or whatever to consume it or want to. Um. Okay.

  • wtf? Where did Bowie Poag's page go? Angry Cat? The Hick? Had some crazy and stupid news. Darn, so much for that plug.

  • Kids Want Out (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Bluesee ( 173416 ) <michaelpatrickkenny.yahoo@com> on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @11:31AM (#2130905)
    I think that the generation below mine has been so inundated with a barrage of glittery sights and sounds that they are numb. It sounds like Seanbaby (which is ./'d already, by the way) consists of just those kids, who are to be regarded as spoiled in one sense and to be pitied as lab rats in another. The science of media manipulation is probably the richest-funded research in the world; They (yes, They) are desperate to understand how to manipulate us. Our 'culture' therefore, has become awash with things that we never would consider pleasurable or desirable, but they are things that corporations have determined are necessary to their survival, i.e., eyeballs or clickthroughs or 'just making the damn sale', and whatever that entails.

    But these things cannot be genuine, because they do not spring from genuine creative energies. They therefore don't touch the hearts and sensibilities of our youth. So we as parents are left with the common lament of past parents (as so eloquently pointed out by the Beatles in "She's Leaving Home"): "We gave them everything. Why do they turn from us?" They turn from us because we gave them nothing, except blinders and 'sensation as experience'. Whereas my generation (late 60's thru 70's and 80's) was somewhat coddled, this one is just plain numb, and it takes a lot to wake people up anymore, so shock and 'Extreme' (how many times have we heard that buzzword?) sports and experiences are necessary anymore. Trust is lost; truth is meaningless; connection is severed. One can only wonder how this generation will raise its children? They will have a tough time to the degree that they - for reasons of expedience - have bought into whatever the media culture was selling while they were growing up.

    Oh, and please don't bring up Suck; every Wednesday without Polly and Terry just reminds me of how much this Promise is failing, falling to the likes of Disney and AOL.

    You know, I was going through my mp3's the other day, and I realized how things have changed. The first 30 or so songs I dl'd were of Radiohead (only live bootlegs, mind you, and yes, two wrongs do make a right here), but they weren't off of Napster, they were downloaded off of fan's pages! You just don't find that sort of access anymore. Not like the old days, ahhhh.... 1998, I remember it like it was yesterday...

    We've given them everything. We've taken away everything. It depends on your perspective.

    • NO. SNES games are not 'culture'.

      HOW DUMB DO YOU WANT AMRICANS TO BECOME ?
      As if we are not dumb enough already. I don't have the attention span for much more of this crap. That's why I get my news on 'culture' from indymedia [indymedia.org].

      If I want to talk about cultural issues, I come here, or go to adequacy.org [adequacy.org]. Or at least I used to until some idiots decided it would be a good idea to DDOS it.

      To sum up: SNES games are NOT culture.

  • Culture == Hate? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by toupsie ( 88295 ) on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @11:27AM (#2134741) Homepage
    Seanbaby was/is known for a portion of his site called "Fat Chicks in Party Hats". Does Jon Katz feel that high culture is making extremely hurtful comments about women with a medical condition? Is the denigration of women what Mr. Katz feels the Internet sorely lacks? Guess there are not enough violence against women pr0n sites for Katz to surf.

    I assume from Mr. Katz's high praise of Seanbaby as a sign that women in the 21st Century still need to be verbally brutalized for the amusement of men based on their physical appearance. Good for you Mr. Katz! You have revealed yourself for what we all believe you are, the UbberTroll! Congratulations!

    Have you thought about running around and calling homosexuals, "STUPID FAGS" like Seanbaby? Or do you remember all you articles regarding Columbine and other school shootings. Praising what you tell us you detest is very confusing.

    • ...making extremely hurtful comments about women with a medical condition?

      Oh jeez. When are people going to learn that everyone has feelings? That everyone belongs to a minority, or has something wrong with them? That every single last person on the planet has had something embarrassing happen to them, or that someone has had reason to make fun of them before? I wish people would realize that we are all different, and humor is one way we point that out and embrace it.

      I dread the day that there exists no more classes or races or genders or body types or social professions or.......

      cd

      Besides, (yes, I'll be the one to say it), lose some weight. It's not THAT hard. I lost 80 pounds when I finally decided I was tired of being a fatty head.

    • Enough of the Politically Correct Fat-Chunk Police:

      The vast majority of fat chicks don't have a medical condition: They can't keep the god-damn fork out of their mouths and they sit around all day on the sofa poping chocolates. They are lazy gluttons. They are not disabled. A disabled person is a Combat Vet with his leg blown off or a person born blind. Not a self-pitying food monster.

      There are very few fat people where the population has to work hard for survival (Africa). There are very few fat people where people walk a lot (Europe). There are very few fat people where they eat properly (Japan). And if you find a large peoson there - they are usally are big and strong, not frail and blubbery.

      America's standard of living has gone down the toilit 'cause every where you look you can't get away for viewing the SUV-owining-glutton-blubber-beasts .

    • fatchicksinpartyhats.com purports to be by Miguel, of dubious existance and bad grammar, but I believe is written by seanbaby.
  • http://www.somethingawful.com [somethingawful.com]. 'Nuff said.
  • Seanbaby is one of the reasons the Web's still-vibrant climate of individualistic expression needs to be preserved as Microsoft and AOL/Time-Warner gather their forces like two giant and rapacious dinosaurs to plot out the future of the desktop. (Believe me, if either or both win, Seanbaby.com won't be there.) Seanbaby.com is the voice of the other Web, the "real" web, if you prefer. It understands that comics, The Simpsons, and Nintendo aren't just "entertainment" -- they're the basis of whole sub-cultures affecting and shaping people's lives.
    oh, as they say, purleeese. Not withstanding the fact that the Simpsons is a product of one of the biggest Media conglomerates in the world. And that Nintendo is the maker of whole realms of entirely closed, utterly ubiquitous, copyrighted morass of sweatshop made kiddie crack (TM), or that Comics are more than likely to be licensing themselves to AOLTimeWarner or Fox or whoever to pay the bills... Not withstanding all of that, can we please get of this Microsoft and ATW will destroy the internet thing? It will not happen. Apart from the fact that the internet is designed to route around this sort of damage, the fact remains that it is
    Against their commerical interests to introduce anything that might jeopardise the richness of the internet experience for their customers. Why did AOL allow access to the web in the first place? (remember when it didn't?) Because the multiplicity of content is the key selling point.

    They, you see, understand that Seanbaby is not the voice of the "real" web. It's just a voice within it. Without Seanbaby, the web would be a poorer place, sure, but frankly, so would the web be poorer if we lost all the crocheting sites, or the fly-fishing portals, or the china-doll collecters' webrings.

    • Not withstanding the fact that the Simpsons is a product of one of the biggest Media conglomerates in the world.
      Don't forget, though, that Simpsons creator Matt Groening's Life In Hell comic strip ran for years in alternative weeklies before he ever gained mainstream attention with The Simpsons. In the late eighties, when The Simpsons first aired, Fox, was an edgy upstart network. Yes, Fox Studios had been around for half a decade, but the network itself was out to shake the market up. I don't think Murdoch's News Corp. owned Fox at that time, but I could be wrong.
      The counterculture-from-the-big-boys phenomenon is not new. Mainstream media sources have always picked up on popular elements from the fringe and taken them as their own, whether its Elvis Presley singing R&B or Toyota commericals saying a car is "like punk rock", its a recurring phenomenon in American culture.
  • If Bob Hope ever finds out he's being used on it.

    --Blair

    P.S. Nobody ever did say what Hedy got for her trouble.

  • You Bastards! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Gregoyle ( 122532 ) on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @10:49AM (#2146343)
    You killed SeanBaby! You Bastards!

    I mean, this article is all about preserving SeanBaby.com and all the sites like it. And then you guys go and set Phasers on Full, and unleash the firehose of the Slashdot Effect(tm) DDOS!!

    I bet the SeanBaby server is cowering in a corner somewhere, rocking back and forth, queitly echo-ing, "Think of a happy place, think of a happy place..."

    • Eh? (Score:2)

      by zpengo ( 99887 )
      Am I wrong, or is SB handling the load pretty well? Little does Katz realize that the site is funded by a multimedia megacorp and is running on a powerhouse server cluster!
      • As far as I can tell, the story has moved down the /. front page and SeanBaby.com is *still* unaccessable. Maybe it's just me or my T1, but I doubt it. :-)

  • This is not a troll, this is a serious suggestion. But don't let that stop you :)

    Mr. Katz gets flamed a lot here, mostly for either saying what we were all mostly aware of already, or for the way that he says it (humorously, the phrase "moral pompousity" used in this article is sometimes pretty close to the truth). But just because this isn't necessarily news for this batch of nerds doesn't mean that it isn't news for someone - I agree that there are a lot of old media companies who probably need to get whacked with this particular clue stick. In the meantime, the "nerd ghetto" here on /. is often in need of some serious clue sticking about the way the real world of lawyers, politicians, and public opinion really works. Thus, I propose a trade.

    Jon Katz should get a semi-regular opinion column in an old-fashioned medium like USA Today (motto: news for those who don't like to read) or maybe on talk radio. He really has a pretty good handle on entry-level geek evangelism, and he could do a lot more good preaching to a choir that isn't already singing his tune. In return, he (or someone else that's available from the old media world) should write some stories for /. focusing on how it is that young, smart, hopeful nerds can get so pounded by the old-world forces of politics and money, and what we can do about it. I realize that /. has become a lot more trademark/copyright/patent-savvy in the last couple years than it was originally, but we still get blindsided by some issues or by the depth of feeling that Joe Sixpack has on them, so it's clear that the /. community as a whole has something still to learn.

    I guess in a way this is a pretty idealistic plan - the people of the world don't really want to be exposed to the cutting edge of technology culture that we're creating and experiencing, and I imagine we'd all be pretty happy if the world of the mass market consumer society left us all alone (OK, except for our weekly /. movie review...). Nobody likes that guy who goes around poking holes in your rosy worldview. But the masses who are just venturing into the digital age need that perspective from Jon Katz, just as we here need some perspective on what those masses are really going to do with our playground once they're all in here.

    Plus, anything that avoids the usual JonKatz flamefest would be a big plus IMHO. Not that I mind the flaming, it just gets a little repetitive and predictable after a while. If you have to flame Katz, flame him for his writing style or the truth of his statements, but don't fault his goal of laying out how he thinks the tech world works. It's a good goal; it's just that sometimes we're the wrong audience for it.

    • Jon Katz should get a semi-regular opinion column in an old-fashioned medium like USA Today

      I think the topic of this thread should have been, Idea: maybe Jon needs a different forum?.

      OTOH, even old-timey /.ers seem unable to bring themselves to filter his stories. He's like Rush Limbaugh or Howard Stern -- Those who agree pay attention, and those who disagree pay more attention. Annoying for us, but great business for Slashdot. :)

    • I would say that he should post to Plastic.com [plastic.com], but I think he'd be severely outclassed by the posters over there.
    • Ack I would hope not. The last thing we need is another media type sensationalizing the tech news. Didn't we just have a big discussion about the media cocking up the news? And you want to allow Katz to pervert the minds of the un-initiated?!? Katz is pretty consistent in his use of drama and hyperbole to try and lend excitement and emotion to his stories. The last thing I want is Average Joe reading his articles and trying to talk about them.

      Better to send someone who won't get facts wrong. Better yet, don't send anyone at all. I get so sick of overhearing (or trying to hold a conversation with) people talk about computers and tech who have no idea what they're talking about. People who read this little blurb on a website (newspaper, tv whatever) and think that they have a right to an opinion on the subject. Maybe if this sensationalist, innacurate bullshit wasn't out there people would feel more obliged to do the research to find out the real facts.

      Please note I'm not putting anyone down, and tech isn't the only place this occurs.

      License Agreement: By decoding the above symbols into meaningful brain activity you have (by the DMCA) voluntarily given up the ability to decode the information contained therein in anyway way other than what the author intended. Furthermore, according to UCITA you may not review this post in any public way, this includes but is not limited to moderation, meta-moderation, or replying.

      • I see your point, but if the average person is going to get their media hype about technology from someone, better that it be Jon Katz who usually has a positive spin and a forward-looking viewpoint, than some news anchor who's deathly afraid of viruses and hackers. The best goal would be to educate the public responsibly, but since they won't sit still for that, at least we can get them excited rather than afraid of technology.

    • That's a terrific idea! My Mom loves to read Jon.

      He doesn't talk over her head and he always makes her think about things from a very different perspective than her own. I send her most of his stuff. She reads it and Googles around learning about what he's writing about. The people in her tennis club think she's becoming "a real brainiac". I was damn proud when I heard about her discussions with her younger PTA friends about Columbine. I'd love to see Jon on the MSN or AOL "home page".
  • Well...
    Usually i give katz a chance, read the article, and attempt not to flame...

    But its getting rediculous. According to Katz, AOL/Time warner is out to get EVERYONE. Come on jon, just accept things for what they are. As far as threatning SeanBaby, I've been reading sean baby for 4 months now. I don't see it going anywhere. Its probably more threatning to slashdot it, as they probably have a bandwidth cap on the server.

    Well, good work katz.
    ~zero
    • According to Katz, AOL/Time warner is out to get EVERYONE.
      As a matter of fact, they ARE out to get everyone. That's the whole basis of capitalism-gone-awry (in which you have to keep on biggering and biggering until the last trufula tree is gone) (as opposed to regular capitalism, which is simply about having an open market on which to trade your goods and services)...

      The funny thing about it is, when you ask semi-net-savvy people, AOL and MSN rank dead last in the great sea of ISPs big and small. Anyone smart enough to do more than casual surfing gets the hell off Eh? Oh, Hell ASAP; the whole high speed data craze has both 800-pound gorillas scared ****less because neither of them has penetration in that market.

      To make a long story short, there is rapidly becoming a two-tiered Internet: The hoi-polloi on MSN and AOL, and us eggheads who patronize their _local_ ISP (high-speed or not) and have the freedom to roam wherever we want and get the Real News.

      Whether this is good or not, is open for debate.

  • Sigh (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Reality Master 101 ( 179095 ) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `101retsaMytilaeR'> on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @10:51AM (#2147232) Homepage Journal

    This is a look into the soul of the real America, at least a significant chunk of it.

    No, Jon. This is a look at a particular slice of the "real America". Just like Time/Warner, Microsoft, The New York Times, Hollywood, Britney Spears, The New York Philharmonic, Joe's Personal Page, Grandma's Grandchildren Page, and everything else that makes up the tapestry of the "real world".

    Something doesn't have to be odd or weird to be "real". Something doesn't have to be Gangsta Violent to be "real". Something doesn't have to be geeky to be "real". A quiet midwest suburban small town with white picket fences is just as "real" as the mean streets of an urban inner city.

    And quiet, dignified manners are just as real as loud, obnoxious immaturity. And a large corporation made up of human beings is just as real as whining, complaining pseudo-anarchists.

    • Britney (Score:2, Funny)

      by truthsearch ( 249536 )
      I sure hope Britney's real...

    • No, Jon. This is a look at a particular slice of the "real America"

      Except for areas, like the RoZone, which is written by a friend of mine, Rosy, from Edinburgh, Scotland.

      Check it out sometime - she's a funny girl;

      http://www.seanbaby.com/rozone/ [seanbaby.com]

    • 0: Slick, professional, elegant and useful.

      2: Great design, useful content.

      4: Nice effort: Graphics, interesting content.

      6: Rough graphics and color scheme, poor HTML

      8: Non-compliant HTML, little visual appeal, poor colors.

      Perfect 10: Crap layout, lousy colors, animated gifs -- hip, happening, and real.

  • Good ol' Jon, always 3 years behind everyone else.

    Next week: An article about someone who welcomes you to his website, and kisses you!

    In 3 years, Katz will write an article about the cultural impact of the "All Your Base" phenomenon.

    How's that memepool writeup you started in 1998 coming along, Jon? :)

    - A.P.

  • Marketing (Score:2, Interesting)

    by LaNMaN2000 ( 173615 )
    All JonKatz left out was: "This message paid for by SeanBaby.com -- stay tuned for 'When lawyers attck 6' and 'Webcam Survivor' next on the alternative media channel."

    In all seriousness, the problem with mainstream media is not the lack of variety it offers but the poor quality of the programming itself. Everybody is trying to cater to the lowest common denominator of human existence (sex, violence, etc.) that any regular Joe can relate to. The sites that make the web a better resource for entertainment are those that focus on a very well-defined niche (slashdot.org) and build an active community among that audience.

    If I'm not mistaken, Jon Katz, himself, actually wrote an entire book about developing web communitites that expresses this same thought. I cannot understand why he would point to a site as general and (in my opinion) uninteresting as SeanBaby.com. It is just another reactionary counter-culture site in an Internet filled with such places.
    • Good point in the second paragraph, which also applies to advertising.

      OTOH, please don't use words when you don't have the slightest idea what they mean.

      From Merriam-Webster Collegiate:
      Main Entry: re.ac.tion.ary
      Pronunciation: rE-'ak-sh&-"ner-E
      Function: adjective
      Date: 1840
      : relating to, marked by, or favoring reaction; especially : ultraconservative in politics
      - reactionary noun
      - re.ac.tion.ary.ism /-"i-z&m/ noun

  • If there's a single trait most people who read Slashdot share -- maybe the only one besides an addiction to software -- it's a love of popular culture.

    Eh? I'm so out of touch with popular culture I'm not even sure if I love it or not!

  • THIS is a story? (Score:4, Funny)

    by xZAQx ( 472674 ) <zrizer AT sbcglobal DOT net> on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @10:41AM (#2156910) Homepage
    You have got to be kidding me.

    Next week on Features:
    Jon Katz gets knee deep in Onions as he investigates a ground-breaking website that is sarcastic at times, and always hilarious. It's called theonion.com, and this brand new website is making waves. Be sure not to miss it, and please leave your pesky brain at home.
    STFU Katz.
    • Ever see the episode of NewsRadio where Matthew discovers Dilbert cartoons?

      I have a new image of Katz in my head, and he looks like Andy Dick.

      • Re:THIS is a story? (Score:2, Flamebait)

        by zpengo ( 99887 )
        I have a new image of Katz in my head, and he looks like Andy Dick.

        I agree, except for the -ndy part.

    • Shouldn't this be in MLP? Oops, wrong site...

  • Endangered? (Score:3, Redundant)

    by Robber Baron ( 112304 ) on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @10:37AM (#2156922) Homepage
    ...a vital but endangered Web species...

    I'll say it's endangered! It's getting Slashdotted to death already!

  • Google Cache (Score:3, Informative)

    by Sir_Real ( 179104 ) on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @10:37AM (#2156927)
    http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:2BFD0zxjzPw:w ww.seanbaby.com/+&hl=en

    for the link weary.

    • MOD PARENT UP (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Since slashdot refuses to mirror sites before unleashing all this unsuspecting traffic on webmasters, we should all use google caches like this one in the future.

      Be a good net citizen. Follow the link.

  • Wrong point (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Have Blue ( 616 ) on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @10:37AM (#2156928) Homepage
    There have always been people like this, who would run sites and magazines and public-access TV shows like Seanbaby if they could. The real point that Katz should have been trying to make is that the Internet has removed the cost of distribution (mostly) and allowed Seanbaby to become popular around the world.

    AOL/TW and Microsoft will not be able to replace counterculture. They may make it slightly more difficult to find, but they can't force me to look at their crap.

    • Re:Wrong point (Score:4, Insightful)

      by batkiwi ( 137781 ) on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @10:46AM (#2146833)
      "Removed the cost of distribution" ?

      I can almost guarantee that this slashdotting will cost him 500$ or more in bandwidth fees.

      Lowtax of sa.com (not the real site, i'm not gonna have him slashdotted too, you either know the site or you don't) has said that it costs him up to 2-4k$ a month in bandwidth fees. Possibly more, as he won't tell anyone an exact number.

      Check out penny arcade's donation page with the meter... they're paying almost 5k$ a month.

      This is out of pocket. Many are going to micropayments now, for obvious reasons.

      But once you get more than 20-30 regular readers, cost of distribution becomes HUGE. It used to be that you could get some cheap ads to at least cover bandwidth, but unless you're willing to go popup crazy, ads will only pay a small %. The rest is out of these people's pockets.

      • Re:Wrong point (Score:3, Informative)

        by Chetmurray ( 216997 )
        I run poe, the sub network sean is on. Seanbaby is currently hosted on ugo's servers. We had to make a deal with UGO (when they won't pay you money get something else). Sean was utilizing 60% of our T1 on most days. Now he has a T1 to himself on ugo's shared server but its metered, hence the no response today. But it is capped so no extra cost to us. Our current bandwidth bills (if we actually paid for everything) would be over $3000 a month. Not what we are making in ad dollars anymore. Eventually bandwidth will get cheaper, but will ad dollars just keep dropping as well? Right now this is all an expensive hobby. Chet
      • I bet that's still a hell of a lot less than running a TV station or publishing a magazine.
      • Personally I'm hoping this problem will solve itself as technology progresses, and the cost of running a site like SA is about what you would pay for your internet service. Because the only alternative is a situation where advertisements are as unavoidable as TV commercials, and the survival of content creators like Lowtax depends not on their own talent, but on the support of a for-profit business. The internet would become a medium for more of the same; MSNBC and such. Content would be 'altered' [fair.org] so as to not offend the parent company. Small, competing sites, with actual integrity, would be bought out by the bigger fish. The only alternative would be to go into debt trying to pay for an increasingly popular site that's been boycotted by the major conglomerates and their advertisers. Any remaining hope for the survival of unfiltered, untainted information online would be snuffed out when it tried to compete with the government-subsidized [politechbot.com] mainstream.

  • SeanBaby.com... (Score:2, Funny)

    by kTag ( 24819 )
    I read scanbaby.com, and I was pretty horrified already... Thank god I was wrong.

  • Did Katz just subscribe to some LOTD service? (Score:3, Funny)

    by AugstWest ( 79042 ) on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @10:32AM (#2156980)
    It's cool to see seanbaby getting attention, but really...
    • Doesn't matter to me, I think it's worth a story just to introduce it to people who haven't read it yet.

      Seanbaby is one of a very few sites that is pee-yourself-laughing funny ALL the time. His articles are the sarcastic writing equivalent of a Jackie Chan fight scene: line after line of constant attack where the sheer creativity is as impressive as the damage dealt, and you're left amazed that it all came out of one head.

  • OldmanMurray (Score:3, Informative)

    by Lord_Pall ( 136066 ) on Tuesday August 14, 2001 @10:32AM (#2156982)
    In case anyone didn't know this as well

    Seanbaby is a big part of the Oldmanmurray website

    One of the funnier game review sites out there, with some fairly biting commentary on the state of the industry

    http://www.oldmanmurray.com

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